SCM minutes

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1. oooscm

[INFO] Channel view for “#oooscm” opened. -->| YOU (_Nesshof_) have joined #oooscm =-= Mode #oooscm +ns by kubrick.freenode.net -->| doko (n=doko@pool-71-124-234-44.bstnma.east.verizon.net) has joined #oooscm <doko> good morning <doko> _Nesshof_: bin ich wieder mit den Zeitzonen durcheinandergerutscht? -->| poolie (n=mbp@pool-71-124-234-44.bstnma.east.verizon.net) has joined #oooscm -->| jam-laptop (n=jameinel@pool-71-124-234-44.bstnma.east.verizon.net) has joined #oooscm <jam-laptop> morning <doko> channel seems to be quiet <poolie> indeed <jam-laptop> well, it seems that _Nesshof_ connected 1hr 41minutes ago, but has been quite for 1 hr 40 minutes.. <jam-laptop> maybe invoking his name will be enough to summon him <_Nesshof_> hi <doko> \o/ it did work =) <_Nesshof_> already 2 CET ? <poolie> i think it is <poolie> 14:00 in Amsterdam anyhow <_Nesshof_> blauwal and kendy are assuming there is an hour left -->| kendy (i=kendy@nat/suse/x-23dabe178fc00424) has joined #oooscm <kendy> Hi! <_Nesshof_> yes, we said 14 UTC <_Nesshof_> so its 15 CET then <doko> arghh <doko> poolie, jam-laptop: looks like my mistake (again) <_Nesshof_> so we had to wait for some more time to give anyvbody the chance to join <jam-laptop> sure * doko is taking a shower |<-- jam-laptop has left freenode (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) -->| jam-laptop_ (n=jameinel@pool-71-124-234-44.bstnma.east.verizon.net) has joined #oooscm <kendy> Ding dong ;-) * kendy pings Heiner <jam-laptop_> Good morning <kendy> Good afternoon :-) -->| blauwal (n=jr93709@sd-socks-197.staroffice.de) has joined #oooscm <blauwal> Hi <kendy> blauwal: I guess you will be the moderator? <blauwal> OK <_Nesshof_> doko: ping <doko> pong <blauwal> First, I think we should make this a weekly regular IRC meeting. Any suggestions for weekday and time? <_Nesshof_> and poolie ? =-= Mode #oooscm +o blauwal by _Nesshof_ <kendy> blauwal: Fri 14 UTC is fine here <blauwal> for me, too <jam-laptop_> poolie: will try to be around, but he has to give a presentation this morning <blauwal> ok -->| mod (n=mod@dslb-084-063-122-035.pools.arcor-ip.net) has joined #oooscm <jam-laptop_> I believe that poolie/lifeless/ianc and some others from our team wouldn't be able to make it normally at 14:00 UTC, (they are in AU) but I can make it -->| markit (n=marco@88-149-177-66.static.ngi.it) has joined #oooscm <doko> fine for me <blauwal> Well the topic of these meetings is to come to a common understanding about the pro/cons of the diverse SCM systems with respect to OOo and hopefully to provide a proposal to the steering committee <blauwal> We'll need to provide some comparable numbers about performance characteristics -->| erAck (n=er@sd-fw-out.staroffice.de) has joined #oooscm |<-- doko has left freenode ("Bye") -->| doko (n=doko@pool-71-124-234-44.bstnma.east.verizon.net) has joined #oooscm <doko> reconnected. <blauwal> We'll need to a priorized list which SCM meets which part of our requirements well, and which less <blauwal> jam-laptop_: Any other suggestions for weekday/time? <jam-laptop_> blauwal: I'm guessing that 1400 may be the best time. It is going to be near impossible to coordinate a Europe + AU + US time. <--| markit has left #oooscm ("Konversation terminated!") <blauwal> jam-laptop_: yes, that will be difficult. So 14 UTC on Friday is agreed =-= jam-laptop_ is now known as jam <jam> sounds good <blauwal> So how to proceed? We need comparable migrated repositories to provide meaningful numbers <kendy> blauwal: Maybe we also could introduce a bit first? ;-) <kendy> blauwal: I think I don't know jam and others here, so... * kendy will start ;-) <blauwal> kendy: right :) <kendy> I'm Jan Holesovsky, work for Novell, and I'm in favor of git ;-) <kendy> I've already created a full import to git with the entire history from 2000 <kendy> I'm not sure about the requirements for the tree, so maybe it does not look exactly how it should... <kendy> ... but otoh I have some ideas etc. as well, so if the requirements are not in stone yet, I'd have some proposals. <blauwal> I'm Jens-Heiner Rechtien, technical lead release engineering with Sun, Hamburg. I slightly favor Subversion and I've got a full SVN import :) <kendy> Next please :-) <jam> I'm John Arbash Meinel, and I work on the Bazaar team <jam> I'm coming a bit late to the discussion, so while I have a conversion, it doesn't really look much at all like the final request <blauwal> next please <_Nesshof_> I'm Martin Hollmichel, member of the ESC and project owner of the tools project * mod is only listening as I am interested in the discussion and not wanting to do my other work <_Nesshof_> so I would like to see a transistion from CVS to somewhat else happen <doko> Matthias Klose, OOo maintainance for Ubuntu during the last 2 1/2 years (which is now done by Chris Cheney) <poolie> i'm Martin Pool, I also work on Bazaar <poolie> (only partly at this meeting...) <doko> that's a bit of understatement ;) <blauwal> erAck: Eike, one sentence from you? <erAck> I'm Eike Rathke, a Sun developer just lurking, without any repository conversion. Currently preferring SVN from what I've heard and, this is the big plus for me as a developer, there are nice scripts to handle CVS and SVN from within the Vim editor, but for GIT there's just a some "display diff" script. <kendy> erAck: You are the last one it seems :-) * erAck prepared that in the meantime ;-) <kendy> blauwal: So - you had a wiki page with the requirements, right? <kendy> blauwal: Is that still valid? <blauwal> kendy: yes. <jam> http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/ <jam> with some important bits on: http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/SCM_Migration <blauwal> kendy: It's also hopefully as SCM agnostic ypuld make it <jam> (just because I still have those windows open) * mod wants to add, I am still forced to use Windows, so it is important for me that very good windows tools support are available as well <blauwal> jam: there is another page which lists the requiremnets <blauwal> one moment, I look it up <jam> oh, sorry, the first one was a bad link <jam> http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/SCM_Requirements <jam> I had started typing in the address bar. ^^ should be correct <kendy> jam: I've done http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Git with some numbers & notes <jam> kendy: right, and doko has put up http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Bzr <jam> Those might belong better in a subdir of SCM_Requirements... but they exist <blauwal> The problem is that we need comparable numbers <blauwal> I've got a proposal how to achieve that, but kendy has some proposals, too, so maybe kendy can you start <blauwal> ? <kendy> blauwal: OK <kendy> blauwal: I'd propose to go from the SCM_Requirements page, and turn it into more concrete one <kendy> blauwal: Like 'we want the history, and it should look like XYZ' <kendy> blauwal: I mean - if to track each commit, just integrations, or patch sets. <kendy> blauwal: And also if we allow a split of the entire archive to more logical subsets etc. <blauwal> kendy: that fits well with my proposal <kendy> blauwal: Great! <blauwal> On the SCM_migration page I got a recipe on how to do a subversion repository <blauwal> it contains, the number of code modules to be converted <blauwal> the branches and tags to be left out <blauwal> does some cleaning of the repository beforehaND <blauwal> I can see two possible ways to proceed. Either we do an import for each candidate which follows a similar path <kendy> blauwal: Of course, as always - some of the approaches help SVN, some help Git, I'm sure some will help Bzr - so we should try to focus on what the devs really need ;-) <blauwal> or we use a converted SVN repository and import from there into the other ones which should yield very comparable results <blauwal> kendy: Well, what the do developers really need :) <blauwal> kendy: I guess they want the SCM which doesn't get into their way. <kendy> blauwal: The devs need fast checkout, fast diff, fast merge ;-) <blauwal> kendy: They to need fast access to files from windows via NFS etc <kendy> blauwal: But you are right, we might discuss that endlessly - so... <blauwal> yes, this will not be the approach which will lead to a result <kendy> blauwal: I'd go the first path (we agree a common similar path), and each can also do a 'how I think the ideal import should look like' <kendy> blauwal: That would 1) give us some comparable numbers, and <kendy> blauwal: 2) maybe a better insight at strengths of the particular tool <blauwal> Yeah. But 2) should come after 1) First we need to work out strength and weeknesses <kendy> blauwal: Yes, agreed <blauwal> I understand that most tools can easily import SVN changesets <kendy> blauwal: [That's why I wrote 'each can also' - not has to ;-)] <kendy> blauwal: Not sure, never did SVN -> git import yet. -->| jam-laptop (n=jameinel@pool-71-124-234-44.bstnma.east.verizon.net) has joined #oooscm <jam-laptop> it seems the wireless here is a bit choppy <kendy> blauwal: And also not sure how the CVS -> SVN imports looks like (like what does it use, cvsps?) <blauwal> So would it be possible to do a 1:1 migration from SVN? Or something which is as closed as described in the scm_migration recipe? <jam-laptop> can someone PM me the discussion since 14:22? |<-- jam has left freenode (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) <blauwal> jam-laptop: we still discuss what to do first <blauwal> kendy proposed two steps =-= jam-laptop is now known as jam |<-- kendy has left freenode (Excess Flood) <blauwal> 1) do a comparable import (maybe inspired by the recipe mentioned) -->| kendy (i=kendy@nat/suse/x-59dcb3ea6eb01e9c) has joined #oooscm <kendy> jam: Done <blauwal> 2) do a ideal import to emphasize the strength of the SCM <kendy> jam: Got my /msg? <jam> kendy: yes, thank yoqu <jam> you <kendy> OK <kendy> blauwal: There is a git-svn-import, but I'm not sure how good it is. <kendy> blauwal: Of course - I'd need the SVN tree locally, I don't want to spend ages on the import ;-) <blauwal> kendy: I tried it, but it failed with a "two many parents" issue <blauwal> kendy: for this we'll have svnserve <blauwal> The repository will go up RSN <blauwal> actually it's up now