Log Mac Meeting 18 July 2007

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[2007-07-18 13::02:36] shaunmcdonald: I think it might be time to start the meeting :-)

[2007-07-18 13::02:41] maho: right, eric?

[2007-07-18 13::03:07] shaunmcdonald: maho: eric isn't here, as he previously mentioned

[2007-07-18 13::03:20] ismael_: maho: ericb2 can't attend today's meeting

[2007-07-18 13::03:57] maho: ah - I should follow e-mails...

[2007-07-18 13::04:09] shaunmcdonald: 1. Welcome new devs joining Mac OS X port

[2007-07-18 13::04:37] maho: welcome!!

[2007-07-18 13::04:41] shaunmcdonald: amb__: jimwhite divoe ms43 are you new developers?

[2007-07-18 13::07:10] maho: hello jimwhite

[2007-07-18 13::07:13] maho: hello divoe

[2007-07-18 13::07:16] maho: hello ms43

[2007-07-18 13::08:18] shaunmcdonald: maho: maybe they are just lurking

[2007-07-18 13::08:24] maho: :)

[2007-07-18 13::08:36] shaunmcdonald: 2. Latest Aqua news (aquavcl02 status, ...) / Work in progress

[2007-07-18 13::09:04] ms43: hello guys

[2007-07-18 13::09:31] ms43: i might be a new developer some time in the future, but right now i am just lurking...

[2007-07-18 13::09:40] hdu_hh: divoe seems to be in a meeting (he isn't a NEW developer though)

[2007-07-18 13::10:11] maho: welcome ms43

[2007-07-18 13::10:49] hdu_hh: WIP: debugging resolution issues

[2007-07-18 13::11:14] PhilippL: work in progress: native focus looks for more controls (currently in: edit fields and derivatives, nonspin, nondropdown)

[2007-07-18 13::11:51] PhilippL: work in progress: disable menu item entries on aqua

[2007-07-18 13::13:15] ismael_: I planned to commit my patch for native borders as i fixed the issue with listboxes

[2007-07-18 13::13:25] PhilippL: sorry, that should have been disable images in menu item entries on aqua

[2007-07-18 13::14:28] PhilippL: ismael_: I wanted to talk to you about focus rings anyway. I think we can get them for every control, but we have to change GetNativeControlregion for each control to reflect the possible focus ring.

[2007-07-18 13::14:40] ismael_: PhilippL: ok

[2007-07-18 13::14:58] ismael_: PhilippL: FYI, there's a bug with focus ring for some text edits

[2007-07-18 13::15:12] PhilippL: ismael_: You can see how it works for edit fields in brdwin.cxx

[2007-07-18 13::15:17] PhilippL: ismael_: what bug ?

[2007-07-18 13::15:41] shaunmcdonald: PhilippL: the removal of images from the menus, is just a change in the default preferences for Mac OS X?

[2007-07-18 13::15:43] ismael_: PhilippL: I had a look at your changes and they are very interesting

[2007-07-18 13::16:38] ismael_: PhilippL: right click in writer to have the popup menu, then characters, fonts

[2007-07-18 13::16:43] PhilippL: shaunmcdonald: yes, that's the plan. Unfortunately that means we need to change a configuration entry for the mac os platform only, a feature that is not yet part of officecfg.

[2007-07-18 13::17:05] shaunmcdonald: PhilippL: ah ok

[2007-07-18 13::17:44] PhilippL: ismael_: comboboxes, I see. I'll disable them today.

[2007-07-18 13::18:10] ismael_: PhilippL: no, the text edits to choose the font

[2007-07-18 13::18:34] PhilippL: ismael_: yes, that's a combobox without dropdown style ;-) in vcl terminology.

[2007-07-18 13::18:55] ismael_: PhilippL: ok

[2007-07-18 13::19:31] PhilippL: ismael_: But you see what I mean with we need more work on this :-)

[2007-07-18 13::20:00] ismael_: PhilippL: see

[2007-07-18 13::20:41] PhilippL: ismael_: yes, exactly. those are vcl ComboBox objects without the WB_DROPDOWN style.

[2007-07-18 13::21:32] ismael_: PhilippL: but they are drawn as CTRL_EDITBOX for the upper part and as CTRL_MULTILINE_EDITBOX for the lower (bigger) part

[2007-07-18 13::22:26] PhilippL: ismael_: yes. That's because the vcl ComboBox is a combined control which contains a ListBox and and Edit field. We don't have a specialized NWF control for the combined control.

[2007-07-18 13::23:05] PhilippL: ismael_: If we need that, we'll introduce it, but I don't think it will be necessary.

[2007-07-18 13::23:23] PhilippL: however we're getting offtopic hdu_hh moans ;-)

[2007-07-18 13::23:46] hdu_hh: B)

[2007-07-18 13::24:01] ismael_: PhilippL: ;-)

[2007-07-18 13::24:41] PhilippL: other aqua news ?

[2007-07-18 13::25:35] PhilippL: next topic ?

[2007-07-18 13::26:34] maho: 3. providing AQUA builds - who, how, what ( Part 2)

[2007-07-18 13::26:45] maho: 3.1 Vote on proposal to release (as MacPort) only master builds (+1 from Pavel and maho, if they are not there)

[2007-07-18 13::27:21] maho: I'd like to provide packages as usual. both AQUA and X11

[2007-07-18 13::27:28] maho: using SRC680_mXYZ

[2007-07-18 13::27:34] maho: vanilla builds

[2007-07-18 13::27:39] PhilippL: +1 for me, too. As pavel said anybody can still release a CWS version, but it should be marked as such.

[2007-07-18 13::28:04] sunrayjogi: +1

[2007-07-18 13::28:05] shaunmcdonald: maho: that sounds sensible

[2007-07-18 13::28:39] maho: :)

[2007-07-18 13::28:52] PhilippL: maho: There is some discussion, when Sun RelEng will provide aqua master builds; I think you're aware of that.

[2007-07-18 13::28:54] ismael_: i don't understand exactly what is master builds? is it only what is in the main branch (ie aquavcl01+aquafilepicker) or main branch+aquavcl02 ?

[2007-07-18 13::28:56] hdu_hh: +1 from me too, I expect CWSses to live shorter (than aquavcl01), so milestone builds will be almost up to date

[2007-07-18 13::29:03] shaunmcdonald: maho: I believe that you have already in the past day released an aqua build for m221

[2007-07-18 13::29:14] PhilippL: ismael_: It's only the main branch and nothing else.

[2007-07-18 13::29:32] maho: ismael_ : it means SRC680_m211 or something like that

[2007-07-18 13::29:40] maho: shaunmacdonald: right

[2007-07-18 13::29:43] ismael_: maho: PhilippL

[2007-07-18 13::29:50] maho: still build is progressing

[2007-07-18 13::30:02] maho: for PPC AQUA/X11 and Intel X11

[2007-07-18 13::30:14] ismael_: maho: PhilippL : ok so we'll have to integrate aquavcl02 to main branch often not like aquavcl01

[2007-07-18 13::30:37] ismael_: else the builds won't change often

[2007-07-18 13::30:38] PhilippL: ismael_: That's the plan. Actually the whole idea of CWS. There are some exceptions.

[2007-07-18 13::30:49] maho: maybe - but it depends, IMHO

[2007-07-18 13::31:34] maho: I don't say something about how cws should be integrated. but too long life for cws is not a good idea IMHO

[2007-07-18 13::31:49] PhilippL: maho: I completely agree.

[2007-07-18 13::32:29] maho: I try to be a tame builder who hates external patches

[2007-07-18 13::32:38] maho: external -> extra

[2007-07-18 13::32:52] maho: Any objections from others?

[2007-07-18 13::33:34] » pjout joined the chat room.

[2007-07-18 13::33:44] maho: pjout?

[2007-07-18 13::33:47] PhilippL: Does anybody know ericb's opinion ?

[2007-07-18 13::34:46] pjout: hi

[2007-07-18 13::35:52] shaunmcdonald: pjout: we are discussing the builds of ooo, and seem to agree that maho should provide master builds

[2007-07-18 13::36:11] PhilippL: So the result would be: motion passed by acclaim I suppose ?

[2007-07-18 13::36:12] maho: ftp://ooopackages.good-day.net/pub/OpenOffice.org/MacOSX/hoge

[2007-07-18 13::36:18] pjout: i have no problem with it.

[2007-07-18 13::37:14] pjout: +1

[2007-07-18 13::37:31] PhilippL: So the result is 1) builds that are not master builds should be marked as such and not as "release"

[2007-07-18 13::37:31] maho: thanks all

[2007-07-18 13::37:50] PhilippL: 2) maho kindly will provide milestone builds for aqua and Mac/X11

[2007-07-18 13::38:12] maho: yes, without patches (exception is build breakers)

[2007-07-18 13::38:31] PhilippL: maho: Anything else I wouldn't consider a milestone build :-)

[2007-07-18 13::38:53] maho: If Hamburg RE team will be interested in providing them, I'd like to drop.

[2007-07-18 13::39:11] maho: I'll use Tiger

[2007-07-18 13::39:16] PhilippL: maho: They will. First they need machines, second adapt the build environment to here.

[2007-07-18 13::39:50] maho: I also asked MH about it.and they will in future. They will contact me then.

[2007-07-18 13::39:56] maho: that's it

[2007-07-18 13::40:28] » mikesic left the chat room.

[2007-07-18 13::40:39] PhilippL: next topic ?

[2007-07-18 13::40:49] maho: 4. Change for fortnightly meetings during the summer : e.g. 8th August and 22 August

[2007-07-18 13::41:03] shaunmcdonald: having Hamburg RE to support MAc OS X means that the Mac will get more testing done on it for each milestone

[2007-07-18 13::41:16] maho: Absolutely.

[2007-07-18 13::42:07] pjout: +1 for mtngs

[2007-07-18 13::42:17] sunrayjogi: shaunmcdonald: Hamburg RE will AFAIK support Aqua builds, not X11... just for being clear.

[2007-07-18 13::42:24] » ek_ joined the chat room.

[2007-07-18 13::42:33] maho: Hi ek_

[2007-07-18 13::42:38] maho: bit late ... :)

[2007-07-18 13::42:46] ek_: maho: hi

[2007-07-18 13::42:50] PhilippL: Since the channel is open anytime, I don't think there would be an issue with meetings every two weeks.

[2007-07-18 13::43:32] maho: PhilippL: I don't think so... having a meeting periodically is important.

[2007-07-18 13::43:43] shaunmcdonald: sunrayjogi: I heard from ericb2 that he was that we wouldn't need to release an X11 version from the start of next year. i.e. 2.4, as the Aqua version would be working good enough

[2007-07-18 13::43:47] sunrayjogi: maho: but not in summer time...

[2007-07-18 13::44:13] sunrayjogi: shaunmcdonald: yes, I also would drop X11 with 2.4

[2007-07-18 13::44:33] shaunmcdonald: many people are on holiday, so there is less progress

[2007-07-18 13::44:52] PhilippL: sunrayjogi, shaunmcdonald : ah, that would enable some cleanup work in psprint and vcl for #fidfef MACOSX :-)

[2007-07-18 13::45:08] maho: Philippl and shaunmacdonald : understand, now we are on vacation :) Japanese work hard :)

[2007-07-18 13::45:13] PhilippL: s/fidfef/ifdef/

[2007-07-18 13::45:25] shaunmcdonald: sunrayjogi: there are a few reasons why people are wanting the X11 version over the aqua version

[2007-07-18 13::45:37] shaunmcdonald: for example opentype fonts if I remember correctly

[2007-07-18 13::45:44] pjout: but having it as a platform isn't bad..

[2007-07-18 13::45:52] maho: Like Panther build, I'll try to support X11 as far as possible :)

[2007-07-18 13::46:05] sunrayjogi: shaunmcdonald: give me one

[2007-07-18 13::46:28] shaunmcdonald: sunrayjogi: I don't have one on me, though that is something that has been commented on

[2007-07-18 13::46:39] maho: I think there are no reason to remove X11 parts for MacOSX.

[2007-07-18 13::46:53] pjout: sunrayjogi: displayking OOo on other system, but running it on Mac

[2007-07-18 13::46:56] sunrayjogi: shaunmcdonald: 2.4 is far away, we should give the roadmap as early as possible to the ooo marketing...

[2007-07-18 13::47:05] PhilippL: We can keep the X11 builds as long as someone wants to support them. IMHO there is no more reason as soon as of 3.0 beta, when we project the aqua port to be up to speed with the other supported platforms.

[2007-07-18 13::47:19] shaunmcdonald: sunrayjogi: aqua is currently scheduled for 3.0

[2007-07-18 13::47:35] shaunmcdonald: http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Product_Release

[2007-07-18 13::47:36] maho: PhilippL : yeah, sure!

[2007-07-18 13::47:42] sunrayjogi: pjout: ...we also have no Windows X11 version to run OOo on Win32 to display it on Linux..?!?

[2007-07-18 13::47:54] maho: sunrayjogi :)

[2007-07-18 13::48:12] shaunmcdonald: pjout: X11 forwarding is the other reason :-)

[2007-07-18 13::48:13] sunrayjogi: shaunmcdonald: Ok. try to share the limited people on such a long trip... have fun.

[2007-07-18 13::48:52] sunrayjogi: shaunmcdonald: only because Mac has an X11 system on board? Sorry, that is no valid requirement.

[2007-07-18 13::49:00] pjout: ok, I have to drive home now. will read the log later.

[2007-07-18 13::49:07] » pjout left the chat room.

[2007-07-18 13::49:08] sunrayjogi: pjout: cu pavel

[2007-07-18 13::49:10] maho: thanks pjout, see you!

[2007-07-18 13::49:40] sunrayjogi: won't test after 2.3 any X11 on Mac OS X port anymore

[2007-07-18 13::50:06] maho: sunrayjogi : are you testing OOo 2.2 X11 MacOSX with TestTool?

[2007-07-18 13::50:35] sunrayjogi: maho: I have used it for 2.2.1

[2007-07-18 13::50:41] shaunmcdonald: maho 2.2.1 is out for some lanhs

[2007-07-18 13::50:54] maho: sunrayjogi : very nice.

[2007-07-18 13::51:22] maho: AFAIK shaunmcdonald, you are QA responsible for MacOSX en-US, how did you QA? Using TCM or TestTool?

[2007-07-18 13::51:49] shaunmcdonald: maho: I've only become responsible for it since 2.2.1

[2007-07-18 13::52:04] shaunmcdonald: maho: James Mackenzie done it for 2.2

[2007-07-18 13::52:04] maho: yes, former is jjmckenzie

[2007-07-18 13::52:13] sunrayjogi: is looking for the agenda item ...

[2007-07-18 13::52:24] shaunmcdonald: maho: James has gone through the testtool

[2007-07-18 13::52:25] maho: BTW: aganda is over, isn't it?

[2007-07-18 13::52:49] maho: First we should close this meeting, should we?

[2007-07-18 13::53:03] PhilippL: not really, we haven't decided on the frequency yet.

[2007-07-18 13::53:11] maho: Opps, sorry

[2007-07-18 13::53:29] PhilippL: So who supports a switch to every two weeks ?

[2007-07-18 13::54:10] maho: No vote for me :( I don't attend this IRC frequently.

[2007-07-18 13::54:15] hdu_hh: +1, at least in the summer

[2007-07-18 13::54:18] PhilippL: I vote 0, I don't care much since I'm here most of the time anyway.

[2007-07-18 13::54:24] shaunmcdonald: +1 for the summer

[2007-07-18 13::54:50] cremlae: 0 for me -- I don't really contribute ;)

[2007-07-18 13::55:11] ek_: 0 for me too. It doesn't matter ;)

[2007-07-18 13::55:26] ismael_: i vote 0 too, don't change a lot for me, IRC is open 7/7 24/24

[2007-07-18 13::56:05] sunrayjogi: +1

[2007-07-18 13::56:11] PhilippL: So it would seem the motion is passed.

[2007-07-18 13::56:22] PhilippL: The next meeting would be 8/1/2007 then.

[2007-07-18 13::56:30] ismael_: PhilippL: with a vast majority of 0 ;-)

[2007-07-18 13::56:40] PhilippL: Is 12:00 UTC still OK for everyone ?

[2007-07-18 13::56:56] ismael_: PhilippL: i don't know if i can attend

[2007-07-18 13::56:57] maho: I prefer 12:00 UTC since 21:00 (JST)

[2007-07-18 13::57:09] maho: but I'm not sure I should attend :)

[2007-07-18 13::57:31] ismael_: PhilippL: i'll surely be on holidays

[2007-07-18 13::57:33] shaunmcdonald: maho: you are very important to the port :-)

[2007-07-18 13::57:48] maho: thx

[2007-07-18 13::58:09] PhilippL: So next meeting is 8/1/2007 at 12:00 UTC.

[2007-07-18 13::58:11] cremlae: PhilippL: I would also prefer a different time - it's 05:00 for me - but my attending meetings isn't as important, since I never say anything ;)

[2007-07-18 13::59:07] PhilippL: If anyone would prefer another time he can post on the mailing list anyway.

[2007-07-18 13::59:08] shaunmcdonald: how would an hour later suit maho and ek_ ?

[2007-07-18 13::59:24] ek_: shaunmcdonald: it is good for me

[2007-07-18 13::59:32] maho: NP.

[2007-07-18 13::59:49] shaunmcdonald: cremlae: would 0600 local time be better?

[2007-07-18 14::00:04] cremlae: shaunmcdonald: Yes, quite.

[2007-07-18 14::00:19] shaunmcdonald: so lets go for 13:00 UTC

[2007-07-18 14::01:10] PhilippL: ok for me. what about ek_ and maho ?

[2007-07-18 14::01:15] maho: oka

[2007-07-18 14::01:18] maho: okay

[2007-07-18 14::01:25] ek_: PhilippL: +1

[2007-07-18 14::01:33] maho: +1

[2007-07-18 14::01:42] ismael_: shaunmcdonald: can you send a mail to the mailing list to inform of the new hour?

[2007-07-18 14::01:47] shaunmcdonald: ismael_: yes

[2007-07-18 14::01:55] ismael_: or someone else ;-)

[2007-07-18 14::02:10] PhilippL: shaunmcdonald: do you update the wiki page ?

[2007-07-18 14::02:25] PhilippL: shaunmcdonald: I just ask because I don't know who did it before.

[2007-07-18 14::02:30] shaunmcdonald: PhilippL: the 8th of January is passed

[2007-07-18 14::02:46] PhilippL: shaunmcdonald: :-)

[2007-07-18 14::02:53] maho: 2007/8/1

[2007-07-18 14::02:53] shaunmcdonald: PhilippL: it was either me or ericb2