Log Mac Meeting 30 March 2007
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Time is french time ( CEST)
15:00] paveljanik meeting starts ;-)
[15:00] shaunmcdonald meeting time?http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/MacOSXPortMeetings
[15:00] shaunmcdonald paveljanik: you were a second early ;-)
[15:00] paveljanik ;-)
[15:00] shaunmcdonald 1. Welcome new devs (if any)
[15:01] * shaunmcdonald doesn't think we have any new developers this week
[15:01] shaunmcdonald 2. Latest Aqua news
[15:02] paveljanik no news?
[15:04] shaunmcdonald ericb2: ismael_ mikesic perezda sky mystic_ca Do you have any aqua news?
[15:05] ismael_ shaunmcdonald: due to school work, i didn't progress a lot these last 2 weeks
[15:05] shaunmcdonald ismael_: thanks for the update, school work is more important
[15:06] paveljanik shaunmcdonald: next point?
[15:06] mikesic we can discuss the tooltip issue now or wait for the top ten - that issue took my time this week :)
[15:07] shaunmcdonald 3. Top 10 Status
[15:07] shaunmcdonald mikesic: go ahead
[15:08] mikesic I have localized the cause of the crashes to event handling, and proposed one solution.
[15:09] mikesic I understand the desire for a more elegant solution, but I don't know what bad behavior has been observed with my solution?
[15:09] shaunmcdonald mikesic: that's great news, I currently have to turn off tool tips whenever I run my aqua build
[15:10] mikesic the solution I have proposed is attached to the issue: 74392
[15:12] mikesic shaunmcdonald: that's all I have :)
[15:13] paveljanik mikesic: thanks. Please continue in investigation.
[15:14] * mikesic_ has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
[15:15] shaunmcdonald Does anyone else have any more news regarding the top ten?
[15:17] paveljanik no
[15:17] shaunmcdonald lets move on then
[15:17] shaunmcdonald 4. Patches to be integrated
[15:18] * shaunmcdonald doesn't think there are any patches to be integrated that need discussion this week
[15:21] * mikesic next item?
[15:21] shaunmcdonald 5. Update http://porting.openoffice.org/mac/timeline.html
[15:21] shaunmcdonald This has been updated
[15:21] shaunmcdonald some people have picked up on this
[15:22] shaunmcdonald it did appear on digg http://digg.com/apple/Timetable_Announced_For_Native_Aqua_OpenOffice_Public_Release_in_May
[15:23] shaunmcdonald It should be noted that the public does have high expectation of us
[15:23] shaunmcdonald Does anyone have any more comments?
[15:24] jamesmckenzie QA.
[15:24] shaunmcdonald jamesmckenzie: no for point 5
[15:24] shaunmcdonald Lets move on then
[15:25] shaunmcdonald 6. User request : provide a migration tool as suggested in [issue 75637]
[15:25] jamesmckenzie Thanks for the new timeline and it looks like we can meet this one.
[15:26] shaunmcdonald jamesmckenzie: it will be (hopefully) updated as we go along so that items that are completed are changed to green
[15:26] paveljanik I haven't heard anyone being interested in or working on this issue, so i wonder why this is in the agenda at all.
[15:26] shaunmcdonald On point 6, I have written the FAQ http://porting.openoffice.org/mac/faq/settingsgone/index.html
[15:26] shaunmcdonald Are the version numbers and locations correct?
[15:27] paveljanik I don't know ;-) But 2.2 is correct.
[15:27] paveljanik hmm, no
[15:28] shaunmcdonald These locations will be used for a small ooo settings migration tool
[15:28] paveljanik ~/Library/... is missing in the path.
[15:28] shaunmcdonald paveljanik: good catch
[15:29] * shaunmcdonald will get that updated after the meeting
[15:30] shaunmcdonald other than the library bit, is there an error?
[15:31] shaunmcdonald next point then
[15:31] shaunmcdonald 7. QA of OpenOffice.org (James McKenzie)
[15:31] shaunmcdonald jamesmckenzie: go ahead
[15:33] jamesmckenzie I would like to state that QA this time was much easier due to the fact that there were many Release candidates and I was able to work through TCM. Shaun and I exchanged results of automated QA and there were NO errors.
[15:34] shaunmcdonald after some of jamesmckenzie 's modifications for the base scripts
[15:36] mikesic jamesmckenzie: Great job! As was said earlier - users have high expectations, and this work is critical to meeting them :)
[15:36] jamesmckenzie Yes. The Base scripts needed to be modified as the x86 detection part did not work on the Intel Based Macs. I contacted the scripts author through Jogi and we will work on this to find out why it did not. I did manual modifications to those scripts and Base test had no errors.
[15:36] jamesmckenzie Yes, QA is not for the developer but for the user. We have to meet or exceed user expectations.
[15:37] shaunmcdonald jamesmckenzie: in a way QA is for devs, since it shows where there are problems in their code ;-)
[15:37] paveljanik QA is here also to help developers to see, if they work correctly ;-)
[15:38] paveljanik yes ;-)
[15:38] jamesmckenzie Also, I propose running automated QA against the next milestone build. I don't want a repeat of problems that have occurred in the past
[15:39] jamesmckenzie True on the finding problems in the code. However, some functions need to be tested which did not change just to make sure no problems will happen.
[15:39] shaunmcdonald jamesmckenzie: Sun generally run qa with a third of the tests for every milestone, this means that every third milestone will have all the tests done
[15:39] shaunmcdonald it takes about a week to run all the testtool scripts, which is a long time
[15:40] jamesmckenzie shaunmcdonald: But we have not run QA on any milestones that I know of since M202 and the macosxmapfiles fix.
[15:40] shaunmcdonald has come across a new sf.net project http://vcltesttoolglue.sourceforge.net/README.html that may help with the analysis
[15:40] jamesmckenzie I run only the sanity checks. I could run all of the tests, but that takes a long time
[15:41] jamesmckenzie shaunmcdonald: Thank you for bringing up the VCL testtool glue project. It will help greatly in analysis of testtool results.
[15:43] * shaunmcdonald thinks that if the vcltestoolglue project is done right it could aid the development of the server that will be developed in the future for the comparison of testtool scripts between platforms and ooo versions
[15:43] jamesmckenzie Thank you everyone for the QA success for 2.2. Next topic?
[15:44] paveljanik BTW - when we at QA:
[15:45] paveljanik There is a patch at #i63620#, that is supposed to fix the black screenshots from testtool - anyone volunteers to test it?
[15:45] IZBot utilities DEFECT NEW testtool: comand snapshot gets black pictures sometimes http://qa.openoffice.org/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=63620
[15:46] cloph Not really a next topic, but a sidenote... thanks to Pavel m207 is now "warnings as error"-clean - with only one small exception - building with gtk fails.. But very easy and small fix: http://rafb.net/p/LSXPYV64.html
[15:46] jamesmckenzie paveljanik: Will this require a new build?
[15:46] paveljanik jamesmckenzie: no, only a small fix
[15:47] paveljanik cloph: brilliant! So will you please turn WaE on in tinderbox and take over the WaE hunting? ;-)
[15:47] jamesmckenzie paveljanik: Will this require rebuilding the project and the OpenOffice.org to make this change?
[15:47] shaunmcdonald jamesmckenzie: it will need a new build
[15:47] paveljanik jamesmckenzie: new vcl module only.
[15:47] shaunmcdonald jamesmckenzie: do you want me to make one for you?
[15:48] jamesmckenzie paveljanik: Thank you.
[15:48] paveljanik 8. Universal Binary
[15:48] cloph paveljanik: Sure :-)
[15:48] jamesmckenzie shaunmcdonald: Yes. Both you and I can then check the snapshot function. Testtool crashed on my system when I enabled snapshots and this maybe why.
[15:49] shaunmcdonald jamesmckenzie: strange, never noticed that here
[15:49] jamesmckenzie paveljanik: Will UB grow the delivered image file that much?
[15:49] shaunmcdonald paveljanik: around 50MB, I've been hearing
[15:49] paveljanik UB is low priority. But in the past I did some patches to make it work almost out of the box. All patches are in my build system: http://ftp.linux.cz/pub/localization/OpenOffice.org/devel/build/Patches/SRC680/
[15:49] paveljanik files with *UB* names.
[15:50] paveljanik the only issue I have now is to build libgcc3_uno.dylib properly.
[15:50] paveljanik But I'm on it.
[15:50] paveljanik After this is done, we can configure with --enable-universal and have universal .dmg and we can start debugging crashes ;-)
[15:51] paveljanik I have seen splashscreen and first page of the FirstStart wizard for about a second and then it crashes.
[15:51] paveljanik When I solve the bridges issue, I'll start to feed patches in./
[15:51] shaunmcdonald and we will only need to build on the fastest platform, with ooo running on both ppc and intel
[15:51] * paveljanik can imagine that UB .dmg with all langs can fill the DVD ;-)
[15:52] paveljanik but to repeat: this is low priority (at least for me)
[15:52] jamesmckenzie paveljanik: :-) on the DVD.
[15:53] shaunmcdonald paveljanik: we need lang packs for mac ooo
[15:54] paveljanik shaunmcdonald: yes. #i64973#
[15:54] IZBot de TASK CLOSED FIXED Auf PrOOo-BOx-Startseite sollte Titel "Formel" durch "Math" ersetzt werden http://qa.openoffice.org/ issues/show_bug.cgi?id=64973
[15:54] paveljanik shaunmcdonald: yes. #i64937#
[15:54] IZBot timed out - please visit the URL yourself: http://qa.openoffice.org/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=64937
[15:55] paveljanik ;-)
[15:55] shaunmcdonald paveljanik: that looks better
[15:56] shaunmcdonald paveljanik: what is the config line to get lang packs?
[15:59] paveljanik shaunmcdonald: --with-lang="en-US cs" *AND*
[15:59] paveljanik you have to run dmake ooolangpacks or something similar in the instsetoo_native
[16:00] shaunmcdonald paveljanik: thanks
[16:03] shaunmcdonald next point?
[16:03] shaunmcdonald 9. Prepare OOoCon2007 : propose a Mac topic ? Reserve rooms, or a house for the Team ..etc
[16:03] shaunmcdonald from ericb2
[16:03] shaunmcdonald it seems that ericb2 isn't here just now
[16:04] ericb2 hello all
[16:04] ericb2 sorry, I was sleeppin, and I'm just back
[16:04] shaunmcdonald If we have enough topics, we may well have a stream for the conference which is specifically aim at stuff that has started in the Mac Port for a half day or a whole day
[16:05] shaunmcdonald ericb2: no problem, we have just started your item
[16:07] shaunmcdonald ericb2 has started a wiki section for it http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/ User:Ericb#Mac_OS_X_porter_Team_at_OOoCon_2007
[16:08] ericb2 first, who will attend ?
[16:08] * shaunmcdonald will hopefully be there
[16:08] ericb2 I know Sebastien will probably (to be confirmed)
[16:08] ericb2 ismael_: ?
[16:09] shaunmcdonald ericb2: will you be there?
[16:09] ismael_ ericb2: i will probably attend but it depends on the date i will start school
[16:09] ericb2 I have proposed a conf, so I'll try
[16:09] ericb2 ismael_: same for me,; but this is ~the first week or so
[16:11] ericb2 paveljanik: no plan ?
[16:13] JoergB_away jogi
[16:13] ericb2 jogi: will you attend ?
[16:13] paveljanik I plan to attend, yes.
[16:15] ericb2 now who is interested to prepare a conf or BoF or whatever about Mac OS x port ?
[16:15] paveljanik first we should discuss topics...
[16:15] paveljanik do we have enough mac OS X specific topics?
[16:16] ericb2 shaunmcdonald: proposed to describe how we are organised : IRC meetings e.g. ..but not only
[16:17] ericb2 I'll continue the description of the port, and to be honest, I hope more
[16:17] shaunmcdonald we can have a general "what have we achieved in the past year in the Mac Port"
[16:17] shaunmcdonald what we plan to do in the future
[16:17] shaunmcdonald UB work
[16:18] ericb2 + SoC
[16:18] paveljanik and do we have Mac OS X specific topics? ;-)
[16:18] ericb2 FYI, Florian Heckl, Sebastien Plisson and me proposed a subject for Google SoC
[16:19] shaunmcdonald by 14:30 UTC I want at least 50 ideas here (12 minutes) I don't care how mad the ideas add it to the list
[16:19] ericb2 we probably won't have 3 google SoC, but at least ( crossing the fingers ) one
[16:19] paveljanik Debugging on Mac OS X
[16:19] shaunmcdonald qa
[16:19] paveljanik Developing on Mac OS X (using Xcode)?
[16:19] ericb2 paveljanik: a workshop ?
[16:20] shaunmcdonald ericb2: +1
[16:20] paveljanik maybe or a demo of available tools
[16:20] * ericb2 suddenly remembers we started something in Hamburg ;)
[16:20] shaunmcdonald some of which will be useful to other platforms too is a great idea
[16:21] shaunmcdonald use of the wiki for sharing information
[16:21] shaunmcdonald use of the issue tracker
[16:21] shaunmcdonald peer review
[16:21] ericb2 shaunmcdonald: sure. All the work we did to progress in vcl understanding are IMHO interesting for other ports
[16:21] shaunmcdonald documentation
[16:22] shaunmcdonald user experience
[16:22] shaunmcdonald aqua hig guidlines
[16:22] ericb2 I think Ismael is maybe a good candidate for that
[16:22] shaunmcdonald IRC meetings
[16:22] shaunmcdonald collaboration
[16:23] shaunmcdonald comparison of OS integration for the various OSes that ooo builds on
[16:23] shaunmcdonald continuous building
[16:24] shaunmcdonald eis
[16:25] shaunmcdonald marketing
[16:25] * ericb2 propose to write possible topics (write a more realistic list) on the wiki, and propose the summary during next meeting
[16:26] shaunmcdonald collaboration with nlcs re testing and marketing
[16:26] shaunmcdonald ericb2: good idea
[16:26] shaunmcdonald hopefully you have plenty of "thoughts" to help
[16:27] ericb2 for the topic, I'd suggest to add 3 keywords, then when defined, things would be more easy to organize
[16:28] shaunmcdonald how to release a build
[16:29] ericb2 e.g. : my conf about Aqua port will be Mac OS X specific, development , conf (for the time )
[16:29] ericb2 or s/development/all publics/ is something important has to be shown
[16:30] shaunmcdonald ericb2: we usually get a lot of people from other areas of ooo coming along to see what we are up to since they are very interested
[16:30] ericb2 again, KiberPipa (hope the name is correct) does a great job, and everything we do will be visible for all people having a web connection
[16:31] * shaunmcdonald notes that we should hopefully have an alpha aqua
[16:31] * ericb2 will
[16:31] ericb2 shaunmcdonald: just hope progress will continue
[16:31] * shaunmcdonald also notes that we will be nearly ready to have the beta at the conference
[16:32] ericb2 shaunmcdonald: not so fast :
[16:32] * shaunmcdonald sees that http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Mac_OS_X_Development_Builds is very out of data
[16:33] ericb2 is it possible to confirm you do something for OOoCon2007 on mac@porting list ?
[16:33] ericb2 several people not attending IRC meeting will see something happens, and this is important to show our activity
[16:36] ericb2 Next point ?
[16:38] shaunmcdonald . Date of Next Meeting
[16:39] ericb2 Friday 6th April, 20:00 CET / 22:00 CEST ( Hamburg , Paris hour ) ?
[16:40] shaunmcdonald 21:00 UTC
[16:40] ericb2 shaunmcdonald: whatever the hour, people willing to attend will be there ;)
[16:40] paveljanik 20:00 UTC?
[16:41] ericb2 paveljanik: we changed for summer time
[16:41] * shaunmcdonald is still adjusting to BST :-(
[16:41] shaunmcdonald paveljanik: +1
[16:41] shaunmcdonald 21:00 BST == shaun's localtime
[16:42] ericb2 paveljanik: sorry I wrongly proposed the hour
[16:42] ericb2 Friday 6th April, 20:00 UTC / 22:00 CEST ( Hamburg , Paris hour ) ?
[16:42] paveljanik yes
[16:42] * asrail (email@example.com) has joined #ooo_macport
[16:42] shaunmcdonald ericb2: I'm happy with that time
[16:43] ericb2 shaunmcdonald: sorry, I was concentrated on CEST ;)
[16:44] ericb2 other questions ?
[16:44] shaunmcdonald ericb2: no problem
[16:44] * shaunmcdonald has updated the error in the FAQ
[16:44] * shaunmcdonald has changed the topic to: OpenOffice.org Mac porting team channel. Next IRC Meeting is scheduled Friday 6th April 2007 (20:00 UTC). See http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/MacOSXPortMeetings for the agenda. All previous Mac port meetings logs are
available at http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Previous_Mac_Meeting_logs | http://www.openoffice.org/issues/buglist.cgi?keywords=aqua [16:44] ericb2 shaunmcdonald: I got the log this time ;)
[16:45] * ericb2 will update the wiki page
[16:45] shaunmcdonald ericb2: thank you
[16:45] ericb2 shaunmcdonald: you are welcome :)
END of Meeting