Log Mac Meeting 19 Jan 2007
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[22:01] paveljanik meeting starts?
[22:01] paveljanik ;-)
[22:01] ericb_ ok, let's go
[22:01] shaunmcdonald http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/MacOSXPortMeetings
[22:01] shaunmcdonald 1. Welcome new devs (if any)
[22:03] shaunmcdonald do we have any new developers or builders here? [22:03] audionuma well I'm a builder
[22:03] * mav_eric (firstname.lastname@example.org) has joined #ooo_macport
[22:04] audionuma for those who have not yet help me here
[22:04] shaunmcdonald audionuma: go ahead an give us a little introduction then :-)
[22:04] audionuma I've installed a PPC buildbot
[22:04] * mmeeks has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
[22:04] audionuma it's available for those who need to do some builds
[22:04] audionuma i'll try to have it on line most of the time
[22:05] audionuma so don't hesitate to launch builds when it's idle
[22:05] ericb_ audionuma: who are you, where are you living ?
[22:05] * ericb_ curious :-)
[22:06] audionuma ericb_: remeber apple expo ?
[22:06] audionuma remember
[22:06] ericb_ audionuma: this is not for me
[22:06] audionuma i live in Paris suburb
[22:06] audionuma my job is in the sound recording/mixing for tv
[22:07] shaunmcdonald audionuma: you were at the Apple Expo?
[22:07] audionuma my knowledge in computer is purely self learning
[22:07] * shaunmcdonald was there for 2 half days
[22:07] * audionuma missed shaun at apple expo
[22:08] audionuma next step for me will be (I think) setting a bot for aqua builds
[22:09] ericb_ audionuma: great :-) bots are very important, thank you very much for your time, and your work
[22:09] audionuma I guess you that's the most significant I can tell
[22:09] shaunmcdonald audionuma: that is easy
[22:09] shaunmcdonald audionuma: my bot will build both
[22:09] audionuma one more thing : i some time run away from the chat cause I have two childs that need attention ;)
[22:10] * mav_eric needs to figure out why his Mac goes to sleep while the bot runs
[22:10] * shaunmcdonald has to remember to add --with-x to the config line for X11 builds
[22:10] shaunmcdonald mav_eric: what are your energy saver settings?
[22:10] * audionuma wonders why his mac never go to sleep since the bot is installed
[22:10] mav_eric shaunmcdonald: nothing changed since the last time the bot worked
[22:11] * shaunmcdonald often changes things, then finds that the change change actually affects the bot :-(
[22:13] * UweAlt (n=UweAlt@xdsl-87-78-249-20.netcologne.de) has joined #ooo_macport
[22:13] shaunmcdonald Hello UweAlt
[22:13] mav_eric shaunmcdonald: could be the case here too
[22:13] mav_eric I'll investigate on this
[22:13] ericb_ UweAlt: hello Uwe :-) [22:13] UweAlt Hi guys! Just listening.
[22:14] mav_eric Hi Uwe
[22:14] shaunmcdonald UweAlt: you have just missed audionuma introduce himself about the new PPC bot
[22:14] UweAlt That's ok. As you know, I'm not so conserned about buildung (just teh left thumbs on that):-/
[22:18] paveljanik next point?
[22:18] shaunmcdonald 2. Aqua News
[22:19] ericb_ no Aqua news ? :-)
[22:20] ericb_ ismael_: ? paveljanik ?
[22:20] mav_eric Moxed
[22:21] ericb_ Moxed: ?
[22:21] Moxed no news is good news ;)
[22:21] paveljanik nothing on my side.
[22:21] ismael_ i fixed the bug concerning transparency for images in contextual menus and toolbar
[22:21] paveljanik I'm buried with the release work
[22:21] paveljanik ismael_: good!
[22:21] ismael_ but there are still some issues in particular cases
[22:22] paveljanik ismael_: what was the problem?
[22:22] ismael_ paveljanik: there's still the bug with images that have an offset
[22:22] paveljanik ah
[22:22] ismael_ an X or Y position different from 0, like for new doc, or styles window
[22:23] ismael_ but i'm working on it
[22:23] Moxed ericb_: well actually one news, I had today the first successful launch of OOo Aqua. Pretty crashy, but at least I get to see it running.
[22:23] ericb_ Moxed: great. Using Carbon ?
[22:24] Moxed using aquavcl01 cws
[22:24] ericb_ Moxed: I got a workaround for some crashes
[22:24] ericb_ other news are :
[22:25] ericb_ Moxed did important cleanup in gdi part
[22:25] ericb_ I did some little changes in salframe too
[22:26] ericb_ and recently, I tried to fix libsalsystools issue
[22:27] Moxed ericb_: related to that, the implementation for parent/child windows is still very sketchy. We might have to emulate some parts of it, because Mac OS X does not fully support that X11/Win32 concept
[22:27] ericb_ now, locale works correctly, wizards work , no more crash with hyperlink wizard in some cases, you can save files (in writer), and open them again
[22:27] ericb_ Moxed: your knowledge is precious. Can you please give us more infos ?
[22:27] mav_eric ericb_: sounds quite "usable"
[22:28] Moxed ericb_: at least that's what native GTK and Mozilla has done on Mac OS X
[22:28] ericb_ mav_eric: sort of, but redraw/bit split and fonts are neded
[22:28] ericb_ Moxed: rewrite a complete binding ?
[22:28] Moxed ericb_: well that stuff is written on the wiki page: "Comparison of toolkits..." that I wrote
[22:28] mav_eric ericb_: yes sure that's why I used the quotation marks
[22:29] ericb_ mav_eric: but the work is well delimited now. Not unknown like before the Hamburger meeting
[22:29] ericb_ Moxed: thanks
[22:30] ericb_ Moxed: I'll have a deeper look, but I think this is your playground, isn't it ?
[22:30] Moxed ericb_: well, I'll only work on implementation if it's needed for canvas or avmedia... And no guarantees on the timeframe
[22:31] ericb_ Another intersting news : Moxed wrote a lot of infos about Native SpellChecking
[22:31] ericb_ Moxed: thanks
[22:32] ericb_ paveljanik: If I remember correctly, you fixed a lot of warnings in sal and other modules
[22:33] ericb_ this is hidden work, but very difficult and never obvious
[22:33] paveljanik yes, I'll add moer about WaE later today once we finish Aqua news ;-)
[22:33] ericb_ paveljanik: ok, sorry
[22:34] ericb_ other aqua news ?
[22:34] UweAlt Another news - although not technical: Erics interview "2007, lanne dOpenOffice ?" has been translated to german and published by macnews.de on http://www.macnews.de/index.php?_mcnpage=96817 within just one day. It seems people are very interested on this issue - at least in germany:).
[22:34] ericb_ The link for Moxed work : http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Mac_OS_X_Porting_-_Native_Spellchecking
[22:36] UweAlt ...and in a very prominent place as "News of he day"
[22:37] ericb_ FYI, one designer (this is his job) contacted me and proposed to realize a complete iconset for the mac port. I'll meet him at Solutions Linux Expo next week
[22:37] ericb_ UweAlt: thanks
[22:38] shaunmcdonald UweAlt: I have to agree that people are interested in "openoffice aqua", as that is the single most search term that lands people on my blog
[22:39] UweAlt perhaps we need a marketing department (besides Ericb-) :))
[22:39] audionuma UweAlt: and openoffice aqua was a great concern of visitors to paris Apple Expo
[22:39] Moxed uwealt: I hope the designer is aware of how many icons there are in OOo. It's several hundreds... Very huge work [22:40] ericb_ Moxed: I forgot to mention 2 students will contribute too
[22:40] ericb_ Moxed: this is a professional, just willing to do something for free. Wait and see
[22:40] mav_eric Moxed
[22:40] Moxed uwealt: Of course, we can also borrow most of the icons from crystal or some other set, and then redo only the most important ones
[22:41] UweAlt moxed: it's ericb_ who knows the designer
[22:41] Moxed sorry ericb_
[22:41] Moxed not uwe...
[22:41] ericb_ I proposed him to start with Jim Mac ( alias Jakob Steiner ) icons, under LGPL
[22:42] ericb_ as starting point
[22:42] Moxed ericb_: yes, that's good.
[22:42] ericb_ Moxed: tango icons, if I remember correctly
[22:43] cloph s/Jakob/Jakub/
[22:43] ericb_ cloph: thank you, I was not sure :)
[22:44] audionuma you mean these : http://jimmac.musichall.cz/openoffice-icons.php
[22:44] cloph Thjis is the industrial theme.
[22:44] ericb_ audionuma: I have not exxactly the same link : http://jimmac.musichall.cz/i.php?i=Tango-OOo
[22:45] ericb_ Next point ?
[22:45] ericb_ paveljanik: ?
[22:46] paveljanik I can say something about WaE aka Warnings Are Errors builds.
[22:46] ericb_ paveljanik: +1
[22:46] paveljanik Last year the work on WaE began.
[22:47] paveljanik Sb did many patches/fixes in warnings% cwses.
[22:47] paveljanik I took his work and fixed all modules for unxmacxp and unxmacxi.
[22:47] paveljanik Starting from m200, we are on the same line as other major platforms.
[22:48] paveljanik I now have even patches for new modules that are not yet WaE clean even on these platforms.
[22:48] paveljanik the only problematic pieces are:
[22:48] paveljanik autodoc (#i70664#, wating for proper patch)
[22:48] paveljanik sal - #i73520# waiting for review
[22:48] IZBot porting DEFECT NEW sal/osl/unx/socket.c: prevent warnings on Mac OS X, clean socklen_t mess http://qa.openoffice.org/issues/ show_bug.cgi?id=73520
[22:49] paveljanik vcl is WaE clean in vcl72, it is still not clean in aquavcl01 and I won't invest my time into this work yet ;-)
[22:49] paveljanik And that is all - if you want to try it, just add --enable-werror to your configure line.
[22:49] paveljanik BTW - buildbots - I'd be interested in your results :-)
[22:50] ericb_ paveljanik: FYI, I fixed some warnings in vcl, and Moxed helped too
[22:50] ericb_ paveljanik: I know how this is difficult, and I want to say you a big thank you
[22:50] ericb_ paveljanik: you did a great work
[22:51] mav_eric paveljanik: first I see if I can finish an aquabuild with my buildbot
[22:51] mav_eric paveljanik: afterwards I see what I can do
[22:53] paveljanik mav_eric: ok, start with m200, not before.
[22:53] paveljanik Thanks.
[22:53] cloph ericb_: Did you have time to give panthertest_2 build a try already?
[22:53] mav_eric paveljanik: o.k.
[22:53] * audionuma couldn't build m20
[22:54] ericb_ cloph: not yes, sorry. Download is completed, but I stopped there. ASAP, I'll test
[22:55] ericb_ Questions about WaE ?
[22:55] audionuma http://buildbot.go-oo.org/MacPort3/builds/8
[22:55] ericb_ audionuma: good ;-)
[22:55] ericb_ Next point ?
[22:56] ericb_ Urgent tasks in native port : presentation of the Top 10 of bugs to be fixed, before a public release
[22:56] shaunmcdonald audionuma: m200 is not available yet
[22:58] ericb_ since some times, we did important progress with Aqua version, and people want to know where we are
[22:59] ericb_ it's not question to propose something immediately
[22:59] ericb_ but sionce we have a serious todo list, we can define objectives
[23:00] ericb_ and I propose to provide a public version once the 10 most important bugs/missing functions are fixed/implemented
[23:01] ericb_ to complete, I propose to communicate, and Eric Hoch and Shaun presents here will help me to prepare, in respectively german, english and french, a description of issues, in simple words
[23:01] ericb_ easely understandable
[23:01] shaunmcdonald ericb_: +1
[23:02] ericb_ in parallel, I have asked to create a keyword " aqua " , to identify those 10 most important bugs/mess
[23:02] ericb_ for every one issue will be created, and fixed the same way as we do for usual issues
[23:03] shaunmcdonald there are other options to using a keyword
[23:03] ericb_ once done, we could package an aqua version, as alpha, saying this is a techincal preview ( or something close), and explaining, it is not complete nor functionnal
[23:03] shaunmcdonald such as a new subcomponent to porting project
[23:04] shaunmcdonald or "[aqua]" in the subject line
[23:05] ericb_ shaunmcdonald: why not. the idea, is to provide a simple url, giving *all* concerned issues to the peopl who wants to have a look
[23:05] shaunmcdonald ericb_: either way we can provide the url
[23:06] shaunmcdonald ericb_: the problem with keywords is that they are meant to be project wide
[23:06] ismael_ and why not doing a wiki page?
[23:07] ismael_ with a link to the 10 issues
[23:07] ericb_ shaunmcdonald: yes, indeed. But Mac OS X port becomes a major port, and desserves it somewhere
[23:08] ericb_ For the record , I'll provide you the list of the Top 10 bugs/issues :
[23:08] cloph ismael_: A page need maintenance, an url does not...
[23:08] ericb_ 1) redrawing/refresh
[23:08] ericb_ this is the first thing you see when you start Aqua version
[23:08] ericb_ workaround : resize the main window
[23:08] ericb_ 2) missing fonts
[23:08] ericb_ IMHO the most important mess
[23:09] ericb_ multi line salllayout is not implemented, methods are missing, fonts paramters are not found ..etc
[23:09] ericb_ a lot of work has to be done here
[23:09] ericb_ 3) missing cursor
[23:10] ericb_ There is no cursor
[23:10] ericb_ and I'll do some tests
[23:11] ericb_ sorry : I found some infos in the API, and I'll do some tests
[23:11] ericb_ 4) Calc not working
[23:11] ericb_ some pending pointer, or something missing causes instant crashes when launching Calc
[23:12] ericb_ 5) Tips causing crashes
[23:12] ericb_ move the mouse over the main toolbar : tips will appear, but won't be deleted
[23:12] ericb_ after some times -> crash
[23:13] ericb_ very annoying issue, for dakr reasons
[23:13] ismael_ good night all
[23:13] ericb_ ismael_: good night
[23:13] ericb_ 6) bit split :
[23:14] ericb_ when you scroll a list with a scrollbar, they are two parts: one modified (what does appear), and one fixed
[23:14] * ismael_ has quit ()
[23:14] ericb_ the fixed part is not cached, and is not displayed => missing
[23:14] ericb_ Ismael is working on that part
[23:14] ericb_ 7) some instant crashes with new documents
[23:15] * Moxed has quit ("It's a wonderful world out there, I'll go exploring...")
[23:16] ericb_ 8) libsalsystools causing locale not correctly seen : this leads to several issues, like wizards not working, save document created not possible, wizard crashing ...etc
[23:17] ericb_ I think I have fixed that, and Oliver Braun will do a better change, more clean than mine, later
[23:17] ericb_ this is issue 69373
[23:17] IZBot porting PATCH NEW soffice.bin does not launch without script http://qa.openoffice.org/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=69373
[23:17] ericb_ 9)
[23:17] ericb_ the tree must be modified, to repect Apple Bundle organization
[23:18] ericb_ Oliver told us this is ~ a 2 hours work , IMHO, mainly in scp2, but I can be wrong
[23:19] ericb_ 10 ) complete keyboard implementation : some keys, accented chars are missing
[23:19] * dave_largo has quit ("Client exiting")
[23:19] ericb_ That's all for top 10
[23:20] ericb_ Important points:
[23:20] cloph ericb_ With point 9) is meant to automate the stuff that is explained in the wiki?
[23:20] cloph (moving the stuff from program to the MacOS folder and stuff?)
[23:20] ericb_ cloph: no, I don't think so : just modify the tree in scp2/source/ooo/*.scp
[23:21] cloph ericb_: You got me wrong..
[23:21] ericb_ cloph: X11 version should not suffer from that change
[23:21] ericb_ cloph: sorry ?
[23:21] cloph I meant with the changes in the code you get the same as if you applied the steps to the build as it is now?
[23:21] cloph Or are there other things involved?
[23:22] ericb_ cloph: this is more complicated : two things are needed 1) correct tree in the bundle 2) fix libsalsystools.dylib, not working at all
[23:22] cloph But that's point 8), isn't it?
[23:23] ericb_ cloph: point 8 is one of the two conditions
[23:24] ericb_ cloph: point 8 caused wizard not working, macosxrc.txt not found, some instant crashes .. etc , even with correct tree (using Pavel script)
[23:24] ericb_ Last points :
[23:24] cloph So correct tree = that what you get when you manually apply the stuff from the wiki. That's what I wanted to know :-)
[23:25] ericb_ cloph: yes, it is :-)
[23:25] ericb_ cloph: to make short : workaround for point 8 was place libsalsystoools.dilyb in / dir
[23:25] ericb_ cloph: same for macosxrc.txt
[23:25] cloph / of the bundle?
[23:26] cloph or global / ?
[23:26] ericb_ I forgot to mention in Aqua news I have implemented UpdateSettings()
[23:26] ericb_ cloph: global
[23:26] ericb_ cloph: annoying, no ? :-)
[23:26] cloph Yeah - and kind of unexpected :-)
[23:26] ericb_ cloph: now it works
[23:27] ericb_ cloph: what is failing, is " ~ " in the path. Not figured out why it does not work yet
[23:27] ericb_ cloph: e.g. hardcoding macosxrc.txt path, UpdateSettings() works
[23:27] ericb_ cloph: and the config file can be read
[23:28] ericb_ I return to last points :
[23:28] ericb_ Native FilePicker works on Aqua (filters are still missing)
[23:28] ericb_ Florian wrote me the info today
[23:29] ericb_ I have found information on how extract global preferences
[23:29] ericb_ e.g. for scrollbars : arrows together or separated -> can be modified in System Preferences
[23:30] ericb_ I already consider that for native controls implementation
[23:30] ericb_ what could help, is define what exactly we could put in a dedicated preferences file, like , e.g. we already to for macosxrc.txt
[23:31] ericb_ Last but not least: Vijay is actively working on Drag and Drop
[23:31] ericb_ I hope I forgot nothing :-)
[23:32] <ericb_> questions ?
[23:32] <ericb_> objections ?
[23:33] <UweAlt> Just for fun: As you know I'm working on a modification of the readme-file delivered with OOo. Can/Shall we introduce there a new option in .dtd-file like < gui: aqua> (or whatever the build parameter is) and some text like "This is ALPHA!" to have a seperate Mac-Aqa-readme-section in the near future?
[23:33] <ericb_> UweAlt: good question ..
[23:33] <shaunmcdonald> UweAlt: that is a good idea
[23:34] <shaunmcdonald> UweAlt: paveljanik has said that there is no time to get it integrated for the next release due to the fact that it needs translation
[23:35] <UweAlt> so we have got some time :-/
[23:36] <ericb_> Misc infos ?
[23:37] <audionuma> ericb_: there's an opportunity to have a news on macbidouille from a friend of mine
[23:37] <ericb_> audionuma: good !
[23:37] <ericb_> audionuma: for some reasons :-)
[23:37] <audionuma> ericb_: the pretext would be the bots
[23:37] <ericb_> audionuma: ah
[23:38] <ericb_> audionuma: thank you in advance anyway
[23:38] <audionuma> ericb_: but I suggested that we put a call to devs
[23:38] <ericb_> audionuma: +1
[23:38] <ericb_> audionuma: with Carbon / Quartz /QuickTime knowledge
[23:38] <audionuma> ericb_: can you send me a brief description besides C++/Aqua knowledge ?
[23:39] <audionuma> ericb_: about 50000 potential readers
[23:39] <ericb_> audionuma: this is simple : Carbon API is enough
[23:39] <ericb_> audionuma: Quartz too
[23:40] <ericb_> audionuma: learn the API is not difficult for a good dev
[23:40] <mav_eric> ericb_: same here in germany - a journalist I helped with OOo offered me his help
[23:40] <ericb_> mav_eric: good !
[23:40] <ericb_> mav_eric: what about invite him for a meeting ?
[23:40] <mav_eric> ericb_: so we can "make a call for devs" simultaniously
[23:41] <mav_eric> ericb_: why not?
[23:41] <ericb_> mav_eric: +1
[23:41] <mav_eric> ericb_: I'll ask him.
[23:41] <ericb_> mav_eric: thanks !
[23:41] <ericb_> FYI, Christophe Laporte contacted me again today. I'll try to meet him at Solutions Linux Expo
[23:42] <ericb_> He's is macgeneration director (not sure of the word)
[23:44] <ericb_> Next important events where I'll be present are : Solution Linux Expo ( Paris) / FOSDEM ( Bruxelles ), and I'll blog about that soon
[23:45] <ericb_> other questions ?
[23:45] <ericb_> Next meeting : 26th January , same hour ?
[23:47] <ericb_> ok, time to stop
[23:47] <obr> good night
[23:47] <ericb_> see you soon
[23:47] * obr (email@example.com) has left #ooo_macport
[23:47] <ericb_> and good night
[23:47] <audionuma> bye to all
[23:47] <mav_eric> ericb_: I don't know if I can be there for sure now but I try to
[23:47] <audionuma> good night
[23:48] * audionuma has quit ()
[23:48] <ericb_> mav_eric: no problem
[23:48] <mav_eric> ericb_: if there would be something important about the top ten let me know otherwise the log is available
[23:48] <ericb_> mav_eric: shaunmcdonald I'll contact you two, to prepare the communication about "you want to test it .."
[23:48] <ericb_> mav_eric: sure
[23:48] <mav_eric> ericb_: O.K.
[23:48] <shaunmcdonald> ericb_: great
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