Education Project/Effort/Various adaptations on Sugar/Work In Progress/IRC meetings

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This page will be used to save the log of every IRC meetings during our training period.

IRC meeting / 17th July 2009


Attendees : Thomas Fontenay, Abdelkader Bellabes, Eric Bachard

Point 1 : what has been done

  • OOO build on Linux : verified OK
  • OOo4Kids build on Linux : verified OK
  • First steps in the source code
  • Started with Valgrind ( log of the leak ?)

Point 2 : Planning for the two coming weeks 30 and 31 ( 17th to 31st July) :

Action Items :

  • document the use of Valgrind
  • document the memory leak (supposed)

Objectives for the next two weeks are :

  • ( Abdelkader) setup Windows install set, and build OOo4Kids + complete the wiki page (OOo4Kids wiki page, Windows dedicated)
  • ( Thomas ): setup a Sugar set, and do the same

Objective : complete two builds in 2 differents OS's

  • start documenting Valgrind use
  • start working with gdb, in particular, be able to set breakpoints in 3 cases :
  1. at a given line
  2. using a given method
  3. when a condition is true

+ providing examples

(if time allows) Case study : catch and trace what happens when changing some color. e.g. changing the color of the background in a Writer document

Objective : trace and document

Scheduled : IRC meeting to make a point around the 3rd August

IRC meeting / 5th August 2009


Attendees : Thomas Fontenay, Abdelkader Bellabes, Eric Bachard

Agenda :

1) Make a point about work in progress :

- build OOo4Kids on Windows, Linux and Sugar

2) A point about the current Action Items :

- document the use of Valgrind
- document the memory leak (supposed)

Question : Validate the current documentation ?

3) A point about the current Wiki page

4) misc questions

Log of the meeting

[10:23] <ericb2> let's start

[10:23] <ericb2> Twarz: Kidd ok ?

[10:24] <Twarz> Okay for me

[10:24] <ericb2> Point 1 : Make a point about work in progress

[10:24] <ericb2> can you remind me both where / what you did build and what is on air ?

[10:25] <ericb2> Kidd: ping ?

[10:26] <Twarz> On my side : first build on Linux at school, second build here almost over (last problem regarding languages at the very end of the build, it shouldn't take long to correct), attempt to build on Sugar on a Stick, which failed most probably beacause I had to use an external hard drive to compile the source. I'll soon receive an unused to drive on which I'll put everything so it should be fine

[10:27] <ericb2> Twarz: ok

[10:28] <ericb2> Twarz: the external hard disk was an USB key ?

[10:28] <ericb2> Twarz: when do you expect to receive this disk ?

[10:30] <Twarz> ericb2: I should receive theis drive during the day. For my first attempt, I had Sugar on a Stick on a 4Bg usb flash drive, and use a 500Gb usb external drive to stock the sources. The build always failed for the module boost. I tried to copy this particular module directly on the 4Gb key to build it, unfortunately each time I tried Sugar freezed, so I let go of this idea [10:31] <ericb2> Twarz: did you ask for help on the channel ?

[10:32] <ericb2> Twarz: I never tested sugar, but I think that if you install Sugar, your problem should vanish

[10:33] <Twarz> ericb2: I didn't for this particular problem, no... Well I supposed it was mostly a hardware problem so I didn't want to feel completely unrelated.

[10:33] <ericb2> Twarz: you can ask such questions on

[10:34] <ericb2> Twarz: finally, the result is: you didn't succeed yet, building OOo4Kids on Sugar

[10:34] * Kidd has quit (Success)

[10:34] <Twarz> ericb2: Yes, I was looking for a complete install of Sugar (in fact, SoaS is really not reliable, for example each time I restarted my computer I also had to re-download every packet, which is quite annoying)

[10:34] * ericb2 forgot to say : I'll forward the meeting to Julien

[10:34] <ericb2> and Pierre

[10:35] <Twarz> ericb2: unfortunately no, but I'll focus on it as soon as 'll get this disk

[10:35] <ericb2> Twarz: noticed

[10:35] * Kidd ( has joined

[10:35] <ericb2> Kidd: ping ?

[10:36] <ericb2> Twarz: Abdel is not there, and we cannot have his status :/

[10:36] <Twarz> ericb2: I'll try to call him

[10:36] <ericb2> Twarz: thanks

[10:37] <ericb2> Twarz: to be honest, this is urgent to make a point, and define more correctly the objectives, and ... make some progress

[10:37] <Kidd> ericb2: my ping seems pretty rude

[10:37] <ericb2> Kidd: looks like

[10:37] Kamots|Away Kidd

[10:37] <ericb2> Kidd: the meeting is already started, sorry

[10:37] Usage: MSG <nick> <message>, sends a private message

[10:37] >Kidd<

[10:37] * [Kidd] is away (repas)

[10:38] Kamots|Away Kidd

[10:38] <ericb2> Kidd: and you are marked as away

[10:38] <ericb2> Kidd: as I said, I'll forward the meeting log to Julien Ballet

[10:41] <ericb2> Twarz: let's continue

[10:41] <Twarz> Sure

[10:42] <ericb2> Twarz: who documented the gdb use ?

[10:42] <ericb2> Twarz: I think this is not really enough, and this must be improved

[10:43] <Twarz> ericb2: I mostly did (sorry again for the Ericb 09:07, 5 August 2009 (UTC), we didn't know about it in the beginning), but Abdel tried some things too

[10:43] <ericb2> Twarz: well, I think a lot is missing. We'll see when we'll trace together

[10:44] <Twarz> ericb2: I did not managa my time well, I jumped from gdb to Sugar to my ow build at home. I'm really sorry about that

[10:44] <ericb2> Twarz: ok. Please think that notice everything you do, every day, will help you to progress

[10:45] <ericb2> Twarz: and organize yourself, else the time will miss you fastly

[10:46] <Twarz> ericb2: understood. Once again I'm really sorry, I do feel like I wasted my time...

[10:46] <ericb2> Twarz: the remark is the same for Kidd  ;)

[10:46] <ericb2> Twarz: to complete the point, I think I cannot validate the current documentation

[10:47] <ericb2> Twarz: will do once it will be more easy to read (please add colors e.g. )

[10:47] <Twarz> ericb2: I understand. I'm still not used to editing a wiki page to be honest

[10:48] <ericb2> Twarz: ok. If you need help : just ask, we are there for that

[10:48] <Twarz> understood

[10:48] <ericb2> To complete the point 2 : action items are not ok, and will be verified next meeting

[10:48] <ericb2> Point 3

[10:48] <ericb2> About the Wiki page

[10:49] <ericb2> As discussed, Ok, but no regularity , and not enough of information : missing dates, missing signatures

[10:49] <ericb2> so the need is to improve the organisation, and the results presentation

[10:49] <ericb2> Twarz: can we agree to have a meeting next week ?

[10:50] <Twarz> ericb2: sure

[10:50] <ericb2> Twarz: say wednesday 12th August, same hour (around 10h CEST i.e. Paris hour)

[10:50] <ericb2> 2009 of course :)

[10:50] <Twarz> I guess so :p

[10:51] <ericb2> for the next week, I propose the following tasks :

[10:51] <ericb2> - create a new wiki page for the IRC meetings

[10:51] <ericb2> - create misc pages for the documentation (Valgrind use .. and so on elsewhere)

[10:52] <ericb2> Twarz: I propose to use the OOo4Kids wiki for the Valgrind use

[10:52] <Twarz> Okay

[10:53] <ericb2> Twarz: you'll need to create an account on it ( 5 minutes), but thus, you'll be more easy, means, less stress over there

[10:53] <ericb2> Point 4 : misc questions

[10:53] <Twarz> ericb2: both abdel and I normally have an account on the wiki already, so it's fine

[10:54] <ericb2> Twarz: do you have questions ?

[10:54] * Kidd has quit (Connection timed out)

[10:54] <Twarz> ericb2: Yes, mostly regardin the use of valgrind, in fact

[10:54] <Twarz> ericb2: In order to produce a usefull documentation

[10:55] <ericb2> Twarz: what is the problem ?

[10:55] * Kidd ( has joined

[10:56] <Twarz> ericb2: this year, we used valgrind for only one thing : checking the memory leaks on very short programs, using only the "--leak-check=yes" and "--show-reachable=yes"

[10:56] <ericb2> Twarz: so do the same : will be enough

[10:57] <ericb2> Twarz: this means, take the time to understand, and become handy with it, reading the logs and so on

[10:57] <Twarz> ericb2: Oh, okay then

[10:57] <ericb2> Twarz: we'll firstly concentrate on gdb first

[10:57] <Twarz> ericb2: understood

[10:57] <ericb2> Twarz: and once gdb will no longer answer our needs, we'll change for valgrind

[10:57] <Twarz> ericb2: okay

[10:57] * ericb2 will need to reinstall a Linux in meantime

[10:58] <ericb2> Twarz: I got a lot to show, and you'll have a lot to do, using gdb

[10:59] <Twarz> ericb2: okay

[10:59] <ericb2> Twarz: I think you have enough of work until next week, don't you ?

[11:00] <ericb2> Kidd: Twarz if you don't have further question, let's consider the meeting as over

[11:00] <Twarz> ericb2: I do. I'm not satisfied with what I've done this week so I'll try to work twice as much to try and compensate

[11:01] <Twarz> ericb2: for now it's okay, I'll directly ask you if I have any problem

[11:01] <ericb2> Twarz: don't forget the essential : work regularly

[11:01] <ericb2> Twarz: and don't hesitate to ask if you have questions

[11:01] <ericb2> Twarz: thorsten, cbosdonnat and b_michaelsen are far better than me, and can answer a lot of questions too

[11:02] <Twarz> ericb2: understood

[11:03] <ericb2> great :)

IRC meeting / 12th August 2009


Attendees : Thomas Fontenay, Abdelkader Bellabes, Eric Bachard

1) Make a point about work in progress :

- build OOo4Kids on Windows, Linux and Sugar - Valgrind and gdb documentation

2) Prepare OOoCon 2009

3) OOo4Kids sugarization

4) misc questions

Next meeting : scheduled 19th August, 10h ( CEST, Paris)

Log of the meeting

[11:14] <ericb2> Kidd: Twarz meeting ?

[11:14] <Twarz> ericb2: sure

[11:14] <Kidd> ericb2: sure

[11:14] <ericb2> let's use the previous agenda

[11:14] <ericb2> Point 1 : Make a point about work in progress

[11:15] <ericb2> if I summarize: both can build both, and OOo4Kids, excepted the little packaging issue on Sugar, right ?

[11:16] <Kidd> ericb2: that's right

[11:16] <Twarz> ericb2: exactly, well to be honest I just passed this problem this morning, but SoaS is very prone to crashing so I had to restart àa lot of time. The build is currently continuing

[11:16] <ericb2> Twarz: Soas ?

[11:17] <Twarz> ericb2: Sugar on a Stick

[11:17] <ericb2> Twarz: ahh . .ok

[11:17] <ericb2> Twarz: so you can run OOo4Kids on it, or did you just try it ?

[11:17] <Twarz> ericb2: the build isn't over yet, but I made huge progress on this side and it should be available in no time

[11:18] <ericb2> Twarz: did you fix the issue, or did you simply use PKGFORMAT=installed (as workaround) ?

[11:19] <Twarz> ericb2: I already used PKGFORMAT=installed, but the problem was located inside a Makefile, where "rpm" was used with an unknown option. I had to modify this makefile and remove the part that caused a problem

[11:19] <ericb2> Twarz: well, did you modify the makefile, or did you just hack it ?

[11:20] <ericb2> Twarz: modify == clean method, using the OOo4Kids variable, the other solutions == hack ;)

[11:21] <ericb2> Waiting, about the point 1: build OOo4Kids on Windows, Linux and Sugar

[11:21] * ericb2 considers this is OK

[11:21] <Twarz> ericb2: I don't think I could call this "clean", I just plainly removed the problematic option, so I guess I hacked it

[11:21] <ericb2> Twarz: that's what I understood ;)

[11:21] <Twarz> ericb2: anyway, the build continued correctly so it should be over soon

[11:21] <ericb2> Twarz: we'll do something more clean later

[11:21] <ericb2> There were action items :

[11:22] <ericb2> - document the use of Valgrind

[11:22] <ericb2> - document the memory leak (supposed)

[11:22] <ericb2> and the question was: validate the current documentation

[11:22] <ericb2> I think we can improve

[11:22] <ericb2> Last : A point about the current Wiki page

[11:22] <ericb2> I think we can improve too

[11:22] Kamots|Away Kidd

[11:23] <ericb2> Twarz: Kidd questions ?

[11:23] <Kidd> ericb2: yes i have one!

[11:23] <ericb2> Kidd: please :)

[11:23] <Twarz> ericb2: No question. Oh, well, in fact: what would you like to see added on the documentation / wikipage to make it better ? We are still "new" to this kind of work method

[11:24] <Kidd> ericb2: about the mail for Sugar labs, no response from all of you so i don't know if i should send it or not :/

[11:24] <ericb2> Kidd: did you connect on #sugar ?

[11:24] <ericb2> Kidd: I'd suggest you to do that, and ask

[11:24] Kamots|Away Kidd

[11:25] <Kidd> ericb2: ask them is the mail is good? i'll try it!

[11:25] <ericb2> Kidd: the process is : everything is debated during meetings. And either the meetting never occured, or was just recently

[11:25] <ericb2> Kidd: no, ask them whether they received it .. as first step ;)

[11:26] <Kidd> ericb2: no that's not the problem, i send it to you, thomas and pierre and asked all of you if it were good but nobody answered

[11:26] <Kidd> ericb2: because you told me you wanted to check it one more time

[11:26] <ericb2> Twarz: I think we missed a skeleton, or an outline if you prefer, for the presentation of the results

[11:26] <ericb2> Kidd: ahhh .. .ooops : that's ok for me

[11:27] <ericb2> Kidd: please send it

[11:27] <Kidd> ericb2: okay :)

[11:27] <ericb2> Kidd: my apologies for the non-reply

[11:27] <Kidd> ericb2: no problem x)

[11:27] <ericb2> Twarz: use some template, or so, colors, better structuration .. and so on

[11:28] <ericb2> Twarz: if we put the information like that, nobody will read more than 10 min

[11:28] <ericb2> Twarz: I know I ask a lot, but this is just productivity improvment, and better organization

[11:28] <Twarz> ericb2: Okay. I'm new with wiki pages edition, so you'll have to guide me a little. I'll try to put hings in order during this week

[11:29] <Twarz> ericb2: no, it's okay, really

[11:29] <ericb2> Twarz: what you did is really nice, but desserves to be valorized more than what we can see

[11:30] <Twarz> ericb2: understood

[11:30] <ericb2> Twarz: this is urgent to repair my own wiki. once done, I'll provide you a nice link, to learn how to improve a wiki page

[11:31] <ericb2> Twarz: eveything is described, and works well. That's how I did myself ;)

[11:31] <Twarz> ericb2: thanks in advance !

[11:31] <ericb2> Twarz: I'll work on that this afternoon. Extremely urgent (for other reasons)

[11:31] <ericb2> Twarz: it is currently offline, because of some attacks

[11:32] <ericb2> Twarz: I got the sql database spammed and so on

[11:32] <ericb2> Twarz: so I prefered put it offline

[11:32] <ericb2> Ok, let's summarize

[11:32] <Twarz> ericb2: Ok... I remember you talking about an attack some time ago, I didn't know this was still going on [11:32] <ericb2> I think the goals have been reached

[11:32] <ericb2> Twarz: unfortunaly ..

[11:33] <ericb2> Twarz: Kidd : I propose to have a meeting next week, same day, and hour. Ok

[11:33] <Twarz> ericb2: fine with me

[11:33] <ericb2> means 19th of August, around 10h or 11h. On this channel

[11:33] <Kidd> ericb2: the same!

[11:34] <ericb2> For today, I consider the point 1 as OK : all goals have been reached, and we have to improve the documentation, and write better what we did, to avoid lose the good information

[11:36] <ericb2> I got two other points I'd like to add today :

[11:36] <ericb2> 2) OOoCon 2009

[11:36] <ericb2> 3) Sugarization

[11:37] <ericb2> Let's start Point 2 ?

[11:38] <Kidd> ericb2: okay :)

[11:38] <Twarz> ericb2: sure

[11:38] <ericb2> Point 2 : OOoCon 2009

[11:38] <ericb2> this will be Orvieto, Italy, this year

[11:38] <ericb2> pierrep__: ping ?

[11:40] <ericb2> and I'll post a note on mailing list

[11:40] <ericb2> Twarz: Kidd : did you subscribe ?

[11:41] <Twarz> ericb2: I think so, it was one of the first things you asked us to do

[11:41] <Kidd> ericb2: i think so too

[11:42] <ericb2> Twarz: Kidd : I don't remember to have seen you, presenting yourself. If that's done, can you please tell me the date you did that ?

[11:42] <Twarz> ericb2: I don't think I presented myself though... Should I do it now ?

[11:43] * fong_ is away: I'm busy

[11:43] <ericb2> Twarz: Kidd : please do, and explain shortly you are students, present your school, what you are doing, and where people can follow your progress

[11:44] <Twarz> ericb2: okay. One mail for both of us or should we both send a mail ? It would be quite redundant..

[11:44] <ericb2> Twarz: one mail per student ?

[11:45] <ericb2> once done, I'll post the note for OOoCon 2009

[11:45] <ericb2> and what we could propose.

[11:45] <ericb2> Twarz: Kidd : the deadline is 21st August ( very close !)

[11:45] <Twarz> ericb2: okay

[11:46] <ericb2> I use to ask for funding, means travel + accomodations. But that's not automatic. Other possibility : share the rooms and the travel

[11:46] <ericb2> I'd like to see students from Ecole Centrale Nantes too, and why not Seneca College, but we must post first on the list

[11:48] <Twarz> ericb2: I'll send my presentation mail this afternoon, this should be done quickly

[11:48] <ericb2> Twarz: Kidd  : everything must be prepared this week. OK ?

[11:48] <Twarz> ericb2: sure

[11:48] <Kidd> ericb2: okay x)

[11:48] <ericb2> great

[11:49] <ericb2> We'll make a point about that next meeting

[11:49] <ericb2> Point 3: Sugarization ?

[11:49] <ericb2> Kidd: I found the link for the debugging on Windows. Minute

[11:51] <ericb2> Kidd: for the record :

[11:51] <ericb2> About the Sugarization

[11:52] <ericb2> I think it worth to join the #sugar channel

[11:52] <Twarz> ericb2: also on Freenode I guess ?

[11:52] <ericb2> and search for further information about the freezes. At least report them

[11:52] <ericb2> twaexactly

[11:52] <ericb2> Twarz: exactly

[11:52] <Twarz> ericb2: okay

[11:52] <ericb2> Twarz: /join #sugar

[11:53] <ericb2> Twarz: present yourself shortly, what you are doing, and ask

[11:53] <ericb2> Twarz: + put the relevant links about your work in progress

[11:53] * Twarz has quit (Remote closed the connection)

[11:53] <ericb2> Twarz: they are nice guys, always prone to answer your questions

[11:53] <ericb2> s/prone/willing/

[11:53] * Twarz ( has joined

[11:54] <Twarz> (wrong term, sorry)

[11:54] <Twarz> Yes, I'll do everything on #sugar

[11:54] <ericb2> Twarz: ok

[11:54] <ericb2> Twarz: please notice, log everything

[11:54] <ericb2> Twarz: we'll make a point next week

[11:54] <Twarz> ericb2: understood

[11:54] <ericb2> other questions about Sugarization ?

[11:55] <ericb2> Twarz: you'll have to explain us what you did, the limitations, and what you did

[11:55] <ericb2> For the rest, I consider you both will have to train and practice with gdb use

[11:55] <ericb2> we'll do that once both will have a debuggable version

[11:55] <Twarz> ericb2: no other question, and I got it for Sugarization. I'll probably spend most of my time on Sugar for the upcoming week

[11:56] <ericb2> Twarz: ot too much, but imho, this will certainly help for the XO program

[11:59] <ericb2> Any further question ?

[11:59] <Kidd> ericb2: not really

[12:00] <ericb2> Let's consider the meeting over ?

[12:00] <Twarz> ericb2: no more question either, so ok

Ericb 10:04, 12 August 2009 (UTC)

Information for the task : Sugarize OOo4Kids

From #sugar channel ( )

[14:58] * ericb2 searching information on how to sugarize an application. Is there the right channel ?

[14:59] <ericb2> with students, we'd like to understand how to prepare an application to be packaged, and thus to be able to be installed, optionaly

[14:59] <ericb2> on Sugar, that is

[14:59] <walterbender> ericb2: Gary Martin did those icons, as I recall...

[15:00] <ericb2> walterbender: hello :) Thanks for the information

[15:00] <walterbender> ericb2: there is info on adding a Sugar wrapper around existing apps in the wiki...

[15:00] * walterbender searches for the ref.

[15:01] <ericb2> walterbender: ok. I'm currently at step

[15:02] <walterbender> ericb2: a good place to start in general is

[15:02] <tomeu> I think the getting involved icons are based on the fedora ones

[15:03] <tomeu> ericb2: which application is that?

[15:03] <ericb2> tomeu: OOo4Kids, a light version of (no Java, no Base, adapted to 7-12 )

[15:03] <ericb2> tomeu: works on Celeron 500 / 128MB of Ram

[15:03] <tomeu> ericb2: ok, a first step would be to make it recognized by the shell as an activity

[15:04] <tomeu> ericb2: here are the details:

[15:04] <tomeu>

[15:05] <ericb2> tomeu: thanks a lot

[15:05] <ericb2> !

[15:05] <tomeu> ericb2: this is how I do it in python using only xlib:

[15:05] <tomeu> so if you are doing c/c++, should be even easier

[15:06] tarbo tinker-f595_ tmu tomeu turn-omg

[15:06] <ericb2> tomeu: indeed, we can both C and/or C++

[15:07] <sdziallas> sorry, was running around, am back now...

[15:07] * ericb2 to log the discussion on the wiki, as reminder for the tudents

[15:07] <ericb2> s/tudents/students/

(second part ... later)

[15:43] <tomeu> nice :)

[15:43] <ericb2> is there information (excepted in the code) somewhere on how activities are "shared" from several IP addresses ? I'd like to understand whether the feature is managed by the application, or whether it is a Sugar feature

[15:43] * ericb2 thinking to several people writing on a same Writer document e.g.

[15:45] <sdziallas> tomeu: done!

[15:45] <tomeu> ericb2: from the application, though there's a dbus service that helps with presence and creating the channels, etc

[15:45] <tomeu> sdziallas: nice!

[15:46] <ericb2> tomeu: ok, thanks a lot one more time :)

[15:46] <tomeu> ericb2:

[15:46] <tomeu> ericb2: there's some documentation about implementing collaboration in python activities, some would apply to c++ as well

[15:47] <tomeu> ericb2: look in the and wikis

[15:48] * meaton2veggies has quit ("Leaving")

[15:49] <tomeu> hmm, takes a while for ACLs to be applied...

[15:49] <sdziallas> tomeu: ...usually < 1 hour, afaik

[15:50] * ericb2 reading

Ericb 13:36, 2 August 2009 (UTC)Media:Example.ogg

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