Community Council Log 20101125

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Community Council

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Ideas related to the community? Tell us!

IRC Log 2010-11-25

  • Supposed start time: 18:30 UTC
  • Location: IRC

Council Members

Community Council Attendees

  • Andreas Bartel (Andreas_UX)
  • Eike Rathke (erAck)
  • Juergen Schmidt (jsc)
  • Louis Suárez-Potts (louis_to)
  • Matthias Huetsch (mhu)
  • Stefan Taxhet)(stx12)


Community Council Session

<louis_to> okay meeting convened.
<louis_to> the agenda can be found at
<erAck> Date: 2010-11-04 ...
stx12> read as 11-25
<louis_to> yes; that was the last noted

  • erAck just saw that it's a redirect to the usual page

<louis_to> yes.
<louis_to> do we approve of those public minutes?
<stx12> yes; we should mention somewhere that the last meeting could not be run due to an unexpected visitor of the channel and a lack of permissioons
<louis_to> consider that done
<stx12> thx
<louis_to> ie, you just mentioned it :-)
<louis_to> I assume now that we have no objections to the public posted agenda minutes above?
<louis_to> I would like to move on to the posted agenda items, please
<stx12> correct;
<jsc> +1, we can move forward with AI 2010-10-14#1
<mhu> +1
<Andreas_UX> +1
<louis_to> that is the "Where do we stand"?
<stx12> let me give an update on the item "where we stand"
<louis_to> please
<stx12> martin can't join us but he talked with cor
<stx12> we have seen the changes in the meantime
<stx12> cor was the first who resigned and
<stx12> other members followed
<stx12> i would like to thank the former cc members
<stx12> for their work on
<stx12> so i think we can consider this item "done"
<erAck> +1
<Andreas_UX> agreed
<jsc> +1
<louis_to> +1
<mhu> +1
<stx12> as far as the discussion in last regular meeting is concerned...
<stx12> at some point elections are due
<stx12> to speak with the charter
<stx12> we should run elections when they "reasonably can be held"
<stx12> i don't expect this to happen this year
<louis_to> indeed; it is quite late already
<louis_to> I would submit we have several cycles of elections to consider and that we need to be fairly careful about logistics here
<mhu> right, as we also need to find suitable candidates first
<Andreas_UX> good point
<louis_to> but let's set up a focused committee to work on the logistics of this asap
<louis_to> and that committee could include all the members of the CC
<louis_to> it would have as its mandate precisely as above, the elections and their planning and scope
<louis_to> shall we move quickly then to the next AIs?
<Andreas_UX> yes please
<louis_to> it's the rather boring one about incubator and NLC closure
<erAck> yes
<louis_to> the NLC closure is a non-issue
<louis_to> it's been in the NLC charter since I wrote it many years ago and specifies how to close the project
<louis_to> the Incubator was drafted and just needs to be finalized
<louis_to> and I'll send it out next week
<jsc> fine
<louis_to> I have to do fosdem again today and some other things needing deadline observance
<louis_to> the nlc is to be found at
<louis_to> same language
<louis_to> the issue here is always the same one: what do we do with the archived/archivable material?
<louis_to> Does CollabNet keep it? do we mothball it in some storage space?
<Andreas_UX> collabnet won't keep it for long i think
<louis_to> the policy is one I'd like to suggest of keeping the data constituting the abandoned project for ever
<louis_to> no, they won't. so, we have to set up the infrastructure for infinitude.
<louis_to> The material, the content, the data, is the community's, or more accurately, the owner of the website's.
<louis_to> that is about the only issue.

  • mhu thinks: a method to keep data forever is to keep them in transit :-)

<louis_to> :-)
<louis_to> keeps us all forever young/jetlagged/forgetful
<louis_to> but that is the only issue really needing serious resolution
<stx12> basically this means that we introduce a list of "discontinued" projects separately from the active ones
<mhu> ...but you're right: we should keep the data
<louis_to> yes.
<louis_to> to both
<louis_to> to answer ST's point, the data just sits there
<louis_to> untouched, but the permissions pertaining to the project are altered to prevent or dissuade joining and participation until such time as the project is revivied, yes?
<mhu> yes
<louis_to> so be it
<louis_to> and that was about the only thing holding conclusion of the @##@@#$ issue :-)
<louis_to> that and my terrible laziness
<mhu> ...and then a "so be it" is such a nice conclusion :-)
<stx12> and some discusiion about criteria IIRC...
<louis_to> so, shall we move on to 2010-03-04#6?
<stx12> yes
<mhu> yes
<erAck> louis_to: please update the AI
<louis_to> yoiu mean mine?
<louis_to> yes.
<erAck> ype
<louis_to> as to #6, I can take this on
<jsc> i would suggest that we replace the owner to "all" and continue to work on this some time later in the new year
<louis_to> and will contact the responsible parties
<jsc> or to "louis" instead of "all" ;-)
<louis_to> actually, I'd like to work on it sooner than that, as I've been quite active with the open education movement and with those invovled in Mozilla's DrumBeat and Barcelona's efforts
<stx12> jsc: we are talking about the item louis will pick up from John,Cor
<louis_to> :_)
<jsc> stx12: i know
<louis_to> to confirm, I shall take up the issue #6 under discussion here and update the wiki
<stx12> there is no "all" in this item
<stx12> yes, please
<jsc> correct but suggested first to put an "all" instead of John and cor
<erAck> +1 for louis_to
<jsc> yes, please take it Louis
<louis_to> Done--am taking it and will report to the CC next meeting results, if any, and possible on the list prior to it
<jsc> mmh Louis is dynamically updating the agenda, cool
<Andreas_UX> incremental improvement ;-)
<Andreas_UX> too much xp and agile for me today
<louis_to> :-)
<louis_to> shall we move on?
<erAck> yes

  • jsc was looking in the wrong line, no dynamic changes

<jsc> yes
<stx12> the next one i can address
<louis_to> uhm. actually, I've updated the ones
<Andreas_UX> somehow you messed up the structure
<erAck> louis_to dynamically messed up the table ;-)
<jsc> yes, now i see an bad formatted table ;-)
<louis_to> indeed
<Andreas_UX> test test test :-)
<erAck> louis_to: you accidentally removed
<erAck> |-
<louis_to> sorry; cannot find the error
<louis_to> ah
<erAck> | 2010-04-01#1

<stx12> then let's look at the last working version and repair the document after the meeting
<louis_to> please, yes
<stx12> we are at 2010-04-01#1
<stx12> Community situation
<stx12> your may have read the page with draft plan improvement community collaboration
<stx12> cor and i agreed that we can't continue to drive this together
<stx12> i will pick this item up and see
<Andreas_UX> +1
<stx12> whether/how the plan we prepared is still valid
<stx12> Andreas_UX: ok, then i'll see only ;-)
<Andreas_UX> :-)
<stx12> no, i thought to look in to the plan again
<stx12> and in which forum it is beneficial for our further work
<jsc> stx12: i volunteer to help you if it's wanted
<stx12> jsc: sure, thx

  • erAck repaired the table

<Andreas_UX> thanks!

  • jsc erAck is our hero for today
  • stx12 knows rollback too ;-)

<erAck> without rollback...
<louis_to> hm. so did I
<louis_to> quite simple....
<louis_to> thx
<stx12> I'm ready to hear mor eabout the last item in the list
<stx12> oops, last but one...
<Andreas_UX> mimetypes?
<stx12> yes
<Andreas_UX> we have the kick-off blog and we have the iteam now
<Andreas_UX> here is the wiki page
<louis_to> thanks
<Andreas_UX> hence, things are going
<louis_to> btw, I can report now, if you like, on the progress on these with the ODF Adoption TC, wehre I represent OOo/oracle, anyway
<Andreas_UX> yes please
<louis_to> There continues to be resistance among IBM for using these
<louis_to> others are more or less quiet on the issue
<Andreas_UX> well, IBM has own right?
<louis_to> however, my argument for going forward, accepted by the Oracle team, is to emphasize positive, visible presence, and the ODF icons are important for this
<Andreas_UX> that is true
<louis_to> it will also help the recognition of viable implementations
<louis_to> "viable" meaning those that offer fuller support
<louis_to> what is needed to be done, now, is to coordinate with the other ODF promoters aroudn the world--the Japanese group comes to mind--to promote ODF and supporting implementations, in positive terms, and the icons are quite important here, so that we do not promote qua OOo over other good implementations not necessarily based on our technology, eg., OFS
<louis_to> Don and others in IBM sitting on the Adoption TC have been very good about this effort and recognize the urgency, as we want to have a strong effort demonstrated prior to ODF 1.2's finalization
<louis_to> that is, procedural one
<Andreas_UX> I'd interpret that as internationally "acceptable" icon symbols are required
<louis_to> Yes.
<Andreas_UX> good.
<louis_to> the issue is the intersection of the symbols with product awareness, identity
<louis_to> hence, the importance of underscoring the neutrality of them and the importance of recognition of the symbols independent of any vendor's brand
<louis_to> it is quite difficult to do; it's not been done before, really
<Andreas_UX> I know but we'll try, really hard :-)
<louis_to> eg, one does not get a web browser b/c it can do HTML, though one can now think in terms of it doing CSS or, say, other formats... and this is a new point. But people are waking up
<louis_to> so, that's that from me on this score
<Andreas_UX> good analogy Louis
<Andreas_UX> I will use it
<louis_to> thx, but keep in mind that it is precisely b/c of Apple's heated objections to Flash and love of HTML 5 that people got some awareness of browser formats to begin with
<Andreas_UX> however, things would be a lot harder if there was something like HTML 5a HTML 5b HTML 5c etc
<Andreas_UX> that's the challenge with ODF for text, spreadsheets, presentations etc
<louis_to> yes. but shall we move on? it's getting late there, in dark, cold, Hamburg
<Andreas_UX> sure
<erAck> k
<Andreas_UX> -2°C
<Andreas_UX> it's somethin arounf a gazillion in °F ;-)
<louis_to> canada uses celsius
<louis_to> and I've used it, and all of metrics, most of my life
<Andreas_UX> oooh forgot, you're in canac#da. right
<louis_to> though when I lived in Australia, we used amazingly complex system of furlongs, chains, rods, gills, etc.
<Andreas_UX> sound like something from a far far alien galaxy

  • mhu thinks there are regions in Canada where -2celsius is actually hot, not cold :-)

<Andreas_UX> agreed :-)
<jsc> ok, should we move on with the lat AI?
<louis_to> yes.
<mhu> yes
<erAck> yes
<Andreas_UX> yes
<jsc> ok i have put a new AI on the agenda to inform you about the OOo internship 2010
<jsc> # the project ended officially on November 14th
<jsc> # 5 of 6 project finished successful. One project is put on hold by a request of the student because the lack of time. We offered to finish this project later after the exam when the student has more time again.
<jsc> # all projects had a good outcome which will result in a future office release or where we can at least use it as more than a good start point for further work on this topic/feature.
<jsc> # overall a good experience and a good project which we should definitely repeat
<Andreas_UX> good to know
<mhu> ...and a perfect reason to make use of the money we collect
<jsc> maybe Eike can comment on it as well because he was one of the mentors
<erAck> indeed... my mentee delivered good work and is motivated to finish the last functions started even if the internship ended.
<jsc> a further student did already more and will continue in the future also
<stx12> can we expect some kind of summary in a posting / blog?
<jsc> and last but not least we have learned again something that we can improve the next time
<jsc> yes, i will summarize it and will put it on the wiki somehwere
<jsc> and we will prepare some kind of certificate for all the students
<Andreas_UX> that a good idea!
<jsc> something offical that they maybe can use later on
<louis_to> please---rafaella had a simiilar idea and we implemented it a while ago for some
<jsc> but please don't ask me for a concrete date. I will do it asap
<jsc> yes i know and we were in already in contact with Rafaella
<louis_to> great
<louis_to> do we have further business
<louis_to> ?
<mhu> no
<louis_to> then I propose we adjourn
<louis_to> all in favour?
<Andreas_UX> +1
<jsc> +1
<mhu> yes
<stx12> ok
<louis_to> +1
<stx12> as said i'll provide the log tomorrow
<louis_to> thanks
<Andreas_UX> thanks
<erAck> ok
<mhu> okay, then bye all, have a good afternoon / evening
<jsc> i will move the updated agenda
<Andreas_UX> bye bye
<stx12> bye all
<erAck> bye all
<jsc> bye
Session Close: Thu Nov 25 21:51:36 2010

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