Community Council Minutes 20080417
IRC log, Community Council Meeting 2008-04-17, 18:30 UTC
- Sophie Gautier (sophi)
- Martin Hollmichel (_Nesshof__)
- Matthias Huetsch (mhu)
- Pavel Janík (paveljanik)
- Christian Lohmaier (cloph)
- John McCreesh (jpmcc)
- Cor Nouws (CorNouws)
- Louis Suarez-Potts (louis_to) (chair)
- Stefan Taxhet (stx12)
IRC meeting commences 18:32 UTC (timestamp is +0100)
(07:32:58 PM) jpmcc: BTW, I think it's now 19:30 BST - CorNows can tell us what that is in UTC
(07:33:59 PM) CorNouws: jpmcc: Was minus 24 + 20 ^3 /log(3356) = 21.30 :)
(07:34:20 PM) CorNouws: But serious: 18.30 UTC while we have summer time, i.e. 20.30 on my clock, wasn't what I had in mind
(07:35:22 PM) _Nesshof_: whom we are waiting for ?
(07:35:27 PM) CorNouws: Waiting for Louis
(07:35:47 PM) jpmcc: What's the quorum for a meeting?
(07:35:56 PM) CorNouws: But we can start with the minutes
(07:36:46 PM) jpmcc: It says: minutes in the works.
(07:37:02 PM) CorNouws: So next point
(07:37:34 PM) CorNouws: Do we need minutes, rather than a list of AI's with the log ??
(07:37:55 PM) sophi: http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/The_OpenOffice.org_Community_Council_Agenda for information
(07:38:54 PM) jpmcc: IMHO minutes are nice to have, not essential. It would be nice to have the log word wrap so I can read it though
(07:39:00 PM) CorNouws: Sophie, could you inform us about the AB meeting (I guess itÅâ€º no news for Louis)?
(07:39:10 PM) Logging started. Future messages in this conversation will be logged.
(07:39:30 PM) CorNouws: jpmcc: Sorry john for starting new issue: minutes first
(07:39:48 PM) sophi: CorNouws: I've already report at last meeting, there is no news other than IBM sponsoring OOoCon
(07:39:57 PM) mhu: Hi, now I'm back from dinner, and online.
(07:40:20 PM) jpmcc: Has anyone any comments on the minutes / irc log http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Community_Council_Minutes_20080327
(07:40:34 PM) sophi: jpmcc: not for me
(07:41:28 PM) CorNouws: jpmcc: not more than the issues that will come back tonight (or another time)
(07:41:54 PM) jpmcc: Tx - so the next item is "Actions from previous meetings" ... have we any?
(07:42:58 PM) CorNouws: We do, but is there a list, or only marked with asterix in the log?
(07:43:47 PM) jpmcc: Let's see...
(07:43:55 PM) jpmcc: [13:58:16] louis_to the esc does the developer budget holder [13:58:43] * _Nesshof_ needs to put it one next ESC meeting agenda
(07:44:07 PM) _Nesshof_: done
(07:44:18 PM) _Nesshof_: I'm the budget holder
(07:44:37 PM) _Nesshof_: pavel and thorsten behrens (gsl colead) the approvers
(07:44:58 PM) jpmcc: Well volunteered all three of you :-)
(07:45:09 PM) jpmcc: 14:00:15] _Nesshof_ and it would be helpful to have consolidated CC meeting minutes with AIs [14:00:17] louis_to can I suggest that one be held then? [14:00:21] louis_to yes, I know [14:00:30] * louis_to curses his laziness
(07:45:54 PM) CorNouws: obviously not cured yet
(07:46:01 PM) louis_to [firstname.lastname@example.org] entered the room.
(07:46:12 PM) jpmcc: Perfect timing!
(07:46:16 PM) cloph: I don't think you can count those IRC "user-does-action" lines as basis for action items :-)
(07:46:28 PM) louis_to: my apologies
(07:46:30 PM) louis_to: I may be booted
(07:46:32 PM) louis_to: at fisl 9.0
(07:46:40 PM) jpmcc: louis_to: We're just going through the AIs from the last log
(07:46:40 PM) louis_to: and they have run out of IP #s
(07:47:13 PM) jpmcc: [14:01:28] louis_to * ESC to hold meeting Monday on electing Budget Holder for Developer budget [14:01:45] louis_to * WWDC petition will go that person.
(07:47:23 PM) louis_to: no connectivity and when I have it, it is spotty
(07:47:25 PM) louis_to: 7,000 people here, and all need wifi
(07:47:49 PM) louis_to: thanks
(07:47:58 PM) jpmcc: _Nesshof_: have you handled the WWDC petition in your new job as budget holder?
(07:48:28 PM) _Nesshof_: paveljanik and thorsten are just discussing in this moment about the approval
(07:48:42 PM) _Nesshof_: I hope we get this done this evening
(07:49:17 PM) louis_to: my connectivity isvery very spotty
(07:49:17 PM) louis_to: I may drop off randomly
(07:50:04 PM) jpmcc: We then had some AIs about OOoCon - which is on the agenda - and Cor had one about arranging a time for the meetings - which everyone is now happy with except him :-)
(07:50:21 PM) louis_to: thanks cor ;-)
(07:50:29 PM) jpmcc: louis_to: over to you - you're in the spotty chair
(07:51:00 PM) louis_to: john, can you continue, please?
(07:51:09 PM) louis_to: my connection is really really intermittent
(07:51:32 PM) jpmcc: OK, next agenda item is Report from AB - sophi?
(07:52:03 PM) louis_to: thx
(07:52:10 PM) sophi: As I said nothing new here, I have introduced Peter to the AB for the OOoCon sponsoring
(07:52:26 PM) sophi: but only IBM has answered yet
(07:52:32 PM) CorNouws: sophi: You were there?
(07:52:54 PM) sophi: CorNouws: where ?
(07:53:08 PM) CorNouws: at the meeting itself
(07:53:09 PM) sophi: CorNouws: we didn't have a new meeting since the confcall
(07:53:27 PM) louis_to: CorNouws: sophie is OOo's represenative to the AB
(07:53:36 PM) louis_to: or more accurately, the CC's
(07:53:50 PM) jpmcc: sophi: Peter asked me if there was a Terms of Reference / Constitution etc for the AB - I said I would ask you tonight?
(07:53:56 PM) louis_to: or "community's"
(07:54:09 PM) CorNouws: louis_to: Yes I know, but if the only news was the 15.000 from IBM, it must have been boring to travel to ...?
(07:54:22 PM) louis_to: ah
(07:54:34 PM) sophi: jpmcc: no, nothing written in fact, the only reality is the minutes of the meeting in November
(07:54:57 PM) louis_to: jpmcc: I wd also suggest we see if we can raise the profile of the CC, too, to make it clearer to all what it is and what it is doing
(07:55:01 PM) CorNouws: Pitty AndrÃ© has to miss this ;-)
(07:55:13 PM) sophi: CorNouws: that was a mail that as flight by himself ;)
(07:55:27 PM) jpmcc: sophi: Maybe we should ask for it to be on the agenda of the next AB?
(07:56:22 PM) sophi: jpmcc: yes, we should prepare the next meeting, even if I don't know when it will be...
(07:58:08 PM) jpmcc: I think we could ask two questions: can they write a Terms of Reference to explain who they are, why they are there, what they are trying to achieve...? and would they like to elect one representative to join theCC?
(07:58:38 PM) louis_to: I would agree, for there to be a clearer statement about AB
(07:58:38 PM) louis_to: but it wuld have to be a dialogue in the end... with the CC
(07:58:38 PM) ***louis_to returns to agenda items and lets john drive
(07:58:38 PM) louis_to: okay, silence?
(07:59:25 PM) CorNouws: good approach, IMO
(08:00:11 PM) jpmcc: Everyone happy with this? Louis, would we have to change the CC constitution to let someone from the AB join?
(08:00:49 PM) CorNouws: jpmcc: + ; +
(08:01:00 PM) louis_to: agreed...
(08:01:06 PM) louis_to: shall we ask the group here to vote on a formal proposal of this nature?
(08:01:18 PM) louis_to: jpmcc: no, we can invite ad hoc
(08:01:40 PM) louis_to: we went over this a little last few times
(08:01:40 PM) louis_to: participate without voting
(08:01:46 PM) ***louis_to was thinking of this point then
(08:02:10 PM) louis_to: others?
(08:02:30 PM) jpmcc: OK, I propose we invite the AB to send along one representative to the CC as a non-voting member.
(08:02:33 PM) sophi: the difficulty is that the AB is not very responsive...
(08:03:38 PM) louis_to: it need not be done immediately
(08:03:38 PM) louis_to: but I do think it will help to have some awareness of it and its vague relation to the CC
(08:03:39 PM) paveljanik: why don't we simply ignore them?
(08:04:01 PM) jpmcc: sophi: Just like people on this irc ;-)
(08:04:02 PM) paveljanik: we only loose time about discussions about AB...
(08:04:34 PM) sophi: jpmcc: the last two mail I sent receive only a answer from IBM
(08:05:32 PM) jpmcc: sophi: I would be quite happy if the others send a cheque for OOoCon and then go to sleep for the rest of the year...
(08:05:44 PM) CorNouws: the AB could do some good work, maybe by existing only
(08:05:57 PM) CorNouws: as long as you talk ...
(08:06:13 PM) stx12: jpmcc: i'm on fundraising tour within sun wrt to OOoCon 2008
(08:06:20 PM) sophi: jpmcc: yes and no, this is bad to put boards in place that are inefficient at the end
(08:06:23 PM) mhu: CorNouws: :-)
(08:06:25 PM) CorNouws: But I agree with Pavel: talking about ther her doesn't bring us much
(08:07:04 PM) jpmcc: stx12: thanks
(08:07:27 PM) paveljanik: maybe we can send them letter that we feel they are unresponsive...
(08:07:28 PM) paveljanik: ;-)
(08:07:59 PM) jpmcc: paveljanik: and if they don't reply...:P
(08:07:59 PM) CorNouws: paveljanik: or ask to reply if they didn't receive the letter :-)
(08:08:09 PM) sophi: paveljanik: I was thinking about it, but I won't do it by myself, I don't speak for myself at the AB :)
(08:08:43 PM) CorNouws: may we continue wth the next item, pls
(08:08:53 PM) stx12: are there any open questions for the AB (other than OOoCon sponsoring)?
(08:09:23 PM) sophi: stx12: writing the charter of the AB is one that come to my mind
(08:09:33 PM) jpmcc: sophi: +1
(08:10:10 PM) ***stx12 thinks that's on the agenda of the AB and not on ours
(08:10:59 PM) sophi: stx12: yes, that's what I said
(08:11:15 PM) paveljanik: yes, and it is completely orthogonal to our agenda.
(08:11:21 PM) paveljanik: and we should not spend the time about it. Really.
(08:11:34 PM) paveljanik: sophi: thanksf for informing us about unresponsiveness of AB.
(08:11:49 PM) jpmcc: OK to move on then?
(08:12:14 PM) jpmcc: OOoCon Arrangements tabled for approval http://council.openoffice.org/servlets/ReadMsg?list=discuss&msgNo=1577
(08:12:15 PM) cloph: yes,please.
(08:13:16 PM) jpmcc: I think this now includes all the suggestions made by the CC last time
(08:13:33 PM) CorNouws: OK, only one thing is not clear to me (atm)
(08:13:57 PM) CorNouws: Is also covered that some non-speaking active members (project (co-)leads for example), might need support??
(08:14:54 PM) jpmcc: Yes, that was the original proposal from the team, and I think it;s a good suggestion
(08:15:30 PM) jpmcc: Peter wanted the CC (or some deputies) to decide who qualifies for funding and who does not
(08:15:32 PM) cloph: That's included in the "other hardship" line, isn't it?
(08:16:27 PM) jpmcc: cloph: probably under the "40 long standing OOo contributors" clause
(08:17:11 PM) jpmcc: We would hope to use other sponsorship money to increase the number significantly from 40+20
(08:17:11 PM) cloph: Well, then no problem with that, I guess?
(08:17:44 PM) jpmcc: CorNouws: ok with that?
(08:18:45 PM) jpmcc: Next item then: "Draft Call for Papers tabled for information" http://marketing.openoffice.org/ooocon2008/cfp/indox.html
(08:19:04 PM) CorNouws: I read the word 'speakers' in our lines; Â´40 long standing OOo contributors ' refers to RF support?
(08:19:19 PM) ***cloph has a question wrt registration fees - will there be some special gift-bag or something, or some other kind of benefit? Or will this merely be an "entrance fee"?
(08:19:48 PM) jpmcc: CorNouws: RF have offered 40+20=60 bursaries - we would hope to extend the number
(08:20:25 PM) jpmcc: cloph: It would cover the T-shirt, plastic model of the Great Wall, etc
(08:21:49 PM) CorNouws: jpmcc: I don't understand the logic wrt my question of (21:13:53) is Yes, itÅâ€º ok :)
(08:22:10 PM) CorNouws: jpmcc: repeat:
(08:22:23 PM) CorNouws: jpmcc: I don't understand the logic wrt my question of (21:13:53), but if the answer is Yes, itÅâ€º ok :)
(08:22:58 PM) cloph: You asked whether that funding is for non-speakers as well. And the answer was: Yes, partly for non-speakers as well.
(08:23:17 PM) jpmcc: CorNouws: yes - your clock is different from mine :-(
(08:24:02 PM) CorNouws: the Yes is ok, pls forget the rest
(08:24:13 PM) jpmcc: Call for Papers - is the balance right? I think we are making a special effort to appeal to developers, developers, developers this year?
(08:25:43 PM) jpmcc: Silence = ok
(08:25:58 PM) mhu: jpmcc: I think the balance is okay; even if that is all company developers.
(08:26:33 PM) ***cloph is silent = thinks it is OK :-)
(08:26:44 PM) jpmcc: mhu: hopefully we'll get some independents as well
(08:26:56 PM) jpmcc: Next: Sponsorship tabled for approval - http://council.openoffice.org/servlets/ReadMsg?list=discuss&msgNo=1584
(08:27:22 PM) jpmcc: stx12: you weren't happy with the sponsorship levels?
(08:27:49 PM) stx12: yes, i had the comment that the highest level is very high and the lowest is very low.
(08:28:25 PM) mhu: stx12: wasn't the lowest level 1000 euros in the past?
(08:28:56 PM) jpmcc: http://marketing.openoffice.org/ooocon2007/sponsorship.html - scroll down
(08:29:45 PM) louis_to left the room (quit: Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
(08:30:21 PM) jpmcc: stx12: what would you suggest - USD 10,000 5,000 2,500 ?
(08:30:40 PM) stx12: jpmcc: yes, sounds better
(08:30:48 PM) CorNouws: compared with 2007, the lowest is high
(08:30:49 PM) mhu: so, that page talks of gold=1000, premium=4000 euros
(08:31:14 PM) mhu: jpmcc: sounds better to me as well
(08:31:47 PM) jpmcc: ok, I'll recommend that to Peter.
(08:31:51 PM) stx12: thx
(08:31:56 PM) CorNouws: What was the problem with 1000 (or 1500) as lowest?
(08:31:57 PM) mhu: okay
(08:33:04 PM) stx12: it's hard to define the benefits if you have a large number of small sponsors
(08:33:32 PM) jpmcc: CorNouws: there are a lot of people in China ;-)
(08:33:43 PM) stx12: not to speakk about the organisational effort
(08:33:57 PM) CorNouws: give more the change to express there involvement (and enlarge it next year)?
(08:34:50 PM) jpmcc: I'm ok with 1,000 or 2,500 - shall we leave the choice to the organisers?
(08:35:23 PM) stx12: USD 1000? please...
(08:36:02 PM) mhu: usd 1000 approx 600 euros as minimum ?
(08:36:48 PM) stx12: no, that doesn't sound reasonable to me. USD 2,500 would be my favorite.
(08:37:09 PM) mhu: I agree w/ stx12
(08:37:30 PM) CorNouws: stx12: ok for me
(08:37:37 PM) jpmcc: OK, USD 2,500 it is (this is like an auction) (bangs hammer on table)
(08:38:08 PM) jpmcc: Next item: "Innovation Program" http://development.openoffice.org/community_innovation_program.html%7CCommunity
(08:38:34 PM) jpmcc: Let's ask the stupid question first: is anything happening with this?
(08:38:59 PM) mhu: the link is somewhat broken (garbage at end?)
(08:39:11 PM) sophi: jpmcc: the mailing list seems silent
(08:39:18 PM) paveljanik: we get a lot of spam there...
(08:39:29 PM) paveljanik: only two proposals sent IIRC
(08:39:33 PM) stx12: I'm preparing a proposals page picking up some items from another stalled campaign - and then i would be happy to see some advertisement
(08:39:59 PM) jpmcc: mhu: http://development.openoffice.org/community_innovation_program.html
(08:40:02 PM) cloph: mhu: just omit the |Community from the URL
(08:40:05 PM) CorNouws: Shouldn't it have a more visible place on the website?
(08:40:40 PM) stx12: CorNouws: which area do you think of?
(08:41:14 PM) CorNouws: stx12: a clear link, at least on top of the news page
(08:41:18 PM) sophi: stx12: adding the link to the footer of the dev@ooo mails
(08:41:44 PM) stx12: CorNouws: there is an item in the news page; sophi: there is no easy way to change the footer
(08:42:13 PM) CorNouws: and regularly on the home-page, under the seagull
(08:42:26 PM) sophi: stx12: I know :(
(08:42:28 PM) CorNouws: stx12: yes, in the news page, bt not on top ..
(08:43:16 PM) stx12: CorNouws: the problem is that we have no different spots for hot current topics and longstanding calls for participation
(08:43:41 PM) jpmcc: "$$$ I want to win lots of money" as a main menu item on the home page?
(08:43:42 PM) stx12: were will we place the OOoCon 2008 CfP? on th etop too?
(08:44:20 PM) stx12: jpmcc: with a bit of rephrasing...
(08:44:46 PM) ***stx12 tends to think this was jpmcc's humor
(08:45:05 PM) sophi: stx12: I'm sure it will work just as is ;)
(08:45:25 PM) jpmcc: stx12: semi-serious suggestion. I can work on the wording...
(08:46:10 PM) jpmcc: OK, I think we are agreed it needs a re-launch...
(08:46:15 PM) stx12: and the seagulls on the home page would work too; let me see some progress on the proposals page and then put it in the gulls block
(08:46:25 PM) stx12: jpmcc: yes
(08:47:13 PM) ***stx12 thinks we need a 2-column layout for the news page; but that might be off-topic...
(08:47:32 PM) jpmcc: ...should we do a quick poll on project_leads to see exactly how much interest we have got? (maybe better to ask for replies off-list in case it's embarassing...)
(08:48:30 PM) CorNouws: ***CorNouws: a few items in the seagull, one after another would do (also off topic)
(08:49:46 PM) jpmcc: Then we can do an 'only n weeks to go' type announcement on the site, on dev@, on blogs, and anywhere else we can get air time.
(08:50:23 PM) sophi: jpmcc: and in the wiki pages too
(08:50:31 PM) jpmcc: sophi +1
(08:51:28 PM) jpmcc: We also need to appoint the "Community Innovation Program Committee", but I suggest we focus on getting some entries first :-)
(08:51:44 PM) CorNouws: jpmcc: +1
(08:52:07 PM) paveljanik: jpmcc: isn't the committee already appointed?
(08:52:12 PM) stx12: i think we have that already.
(08:52:16 PM) paveljanik: but yes, entries are more important ;-)
(08:52:25 PM) mhu: sorry to bring this up again: we're now 80 minutes into the meeting, when does it end?
(08:52:41 PM) jpmcc: paveljanik: we have a mailing list - is that the same thing?
(08:52:42 PM) stx12: the evening? at 24:00 :-)
(08:53:23 PM) paveljanik: stx12: what time? ;-)
(08:53:42 PM) sophi: paveljanik: PT ;)
(08:53:53 PM) mhu: PDT ?
(08:54:16 PM) ***stx12 tries to be serious and will search for the message with the CIP committe later...
(08:54:29 PM) jpmcc: stx12: thanks
(08:54:32 PM) jpmcc: The next two items on the Agenda are from Louis I think: Elections Trademark - do we know what he wanted to cover?
(08:55:01 PM) mhu: trademark? don't know.
(08:55:30 PM) CorNouws: About trademark: wonder if there is any news from Sun legal people, that are the ones that have to take action
(08:56:17 PM) stx12: CorNouws: about the violations you mean?
(08:56:18 PM) mhu: sun is applying for the trademark in various countries all over the world, AFAIK.
(08:57:07 PM) CorNouws: stx12: Violations, yes
(08:57:36 PM) CorNouws: stx12: also, we can try to do something about the just not illegal abuse
(08:57:55 PM) CorNouws: stx12: it's on the trademark list
(08:58:25 PM) stx12: i guess we have to follow-up with louis on this...
(08:58:38 PM) jpmcc: We'd also prepared http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/SellingOOo - Louis was moving this to the main site
(08:58:52 PM) CorNouws: stx12: yes of course, IÂ´ve no idea what he wanted to bring forward here
(08:58:57 PM) sophi: mhu: whom should we ask to know where the trademakr is applied?
(08:59:18 PM) mhu: sophi: don't know; stx12?
(08:59:41 PM) cloph: German folks suffered from misuse of google-ads. People looked for OOo and were offered download-links in the ads, the site then asked for registration and stuff that ended in a bill sent to the user for some kind of abonemment for the site... I doubt a trademark can solve this kind of problem, does it?
(09:00:14 PM) CorNouws: cloph: No, but that is what I meant with other abuse
(09:00:29 PM) stx12: cloph: mega-download? i don't think so
(09:01:28 PM) jpmcc: OK, looks like we need a report from Louis and carry over to the next meeting :-(
(09:01:49 PM) ***mhu thinks it's time to call it a day...
(09:02:21 PM) jpmcc: CorNouws: can we cover "Year plan" in two minutes?
(09:02:32 PM) CorNouws: mhu: +1
(09:02:52 PM) CorNouws: jpmcc: of course, but let's keep it for later
(09:02:59 PM) sophi: jpmcc: I have a freemind of the actions done by the CC, I can share it :)
(09:03:16 PM) jpmcc: sophi: thank you
(09:03:56 PM) jpmcc: OK, so we carry forward " Elections Trademark Year plan" and go and heave (real) beers?
(09:04:06 PM) jpmcc: heave = have
(09:04:16 PM) mhu: cheers :-)
(09:04:17 PM) CorNouws: +1
(09:04:37 PM) stx12: thanks all, have a nice evening...
(09:04:50 PM) jpmcc: "Heave" is the noise you make in the west of Scotland if you have too many beers :)
(09:04:59 PM) sophi: thanks and good night
(09:05:09 PM) cloph: :-) Good night
(09:05:13 PM) sophi: jpmcc: I was sure you've got enough ;)
(09:05:15 PM) mhu: good night everyone.
(09:05:17 PM) jpmcc: Good night all and thanks for your patience