Community Council Log 20100722

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Community Council

The Community Council members are your representatives



Ideas related to the community? Tell us!

IRC Log 2010-07-22

  • Supposed start time: 18:30 UTC
  • Location: IRC

Council Members


  • Andreas Bartel (Andreas_UX)
  • Carsten Driesner (cd_oo, deputy of Juergen Schmidt)
  • Christoph Noack (christoph_n)
  • Cor Nouws (CorNouws)
  • Eike Rathke (erAck)
  • Leif Lodahl (leiflodahl, deputy of Charles-H. Schulz)
  • Matthias Huetsch (mhu)
  • Martin Hollmichel (_Nesshof_, deputy of Stefan Taxhet)


  • Charles-H. Schulz
  • Juergen Schmidt
  • Louis Suárez-Potts
  • Olivier Hallot

Public Questions-and-Answers Session

(20:29:57) MechtiIde hat das Thema zu The Community Council (CC) is announcing a new Q&A part as an extension of our frequently hold council meeting. abgeändert
(20:30:00) cd_oo: Good evening, Cor
(20:30:06) christoph_n: Oh great, thanks Mechtilde!
(20:30:29) ***christoph_n thinks of entering the directory oo: cd oo
(20:31:20) erAck [~er@nat/sun/x-jrjyiiatsprabepc] hat den Raum betreten.
(20:31:32) mhu [] hat den Raum betreten.
(20:31:39) mhu: Hi all
(20:31:45) Andreas_UX: hi!
(20:31:46) christoph_n: Hi Eike!
(20:32:00) cd_oo: Hi
(20:32:21) christoph_n: Cor: Were there any questions to CC in advance?
(20:32:35) erAck: moin
(20:33:09) CorNouws: christoph_n: yes, lots of them - but only from me ;-)
(20:33:49) christoph_n: Cor: Well, maybe you can also answer those questions ;-)
(20:33:59) ***mhu wonders whether CorNouws is allowed to ask questions :-)
(20:34:24) ***christoph_n wonders if he qualifies for other things ...
(20:34:39) CorNouws: questions that lead to disruption .. you 'dd rather avoid those ;-)
(20:34:53) mhu: :-)
(20:34:59) CorNouws: however, shall we just start?
(20:35:10) christoph_n: Oh, I'm at work. I love "disruptive proactive questions"...
(20:35:27) christoph_n: Cor: +1
(20:35:29) mhu: so, the public consists of Mechthilde, only <ß
(20:35:46) christoph_n: Since she does most of the work ... yes!
(20:35:52) CorNouws: I understood MechtiIde interpreted QA as Quality Assurance rather then Quests & Answers
(20:36:02) mhu: s/<ß/?/
(20:36:05) leiflodahl: :-D
(20:36:09) CorNouws: but se may have a question though?
(20:36:31) MechtiIde: not really
(20:36:34) MechtiIde: :)
(20:36:45) christoph_n: What a great community member ;-)
(20:37:01) CorNouws: then I suggest that we ask you questions
(20:37:04) leiflodahl: Otherwise I have two Q's
(20:37:24) christoph_n: Go ahead, 007.
(20:37:53) leiflodahl: 1) Is there an agenda for todays CC meeting?
(20:38:35) CorNouws: leiflodahl: not that I know.. just too busy to jump in - sorry
(20:38:36) christoph_n: (Just had a look...) Only few items have been updated.
(20:38:38) ***erAck notes the community as represented by MechtiIde is perfectly happy :)
(20:38:59) ***christoph_n notes that Eike asks the community. Nice Q&A :-)
(20:39:14) leiflodahl: 2) It seems that the CC is overloaded with work. Why don't you invite deputies to participate in the work?
(20:39:40) christoph_n: May I?
(20:39:41) leiflodahl: btw: I'm deputy for Charles-H
(20:39:44) CorNouws: layziness?
(20:39:57) CorNouws: stupidity?
(20:40:09) CorNouws: (All talking for my self, of course)
(20:40:17) christoph_n: First: This is a good idea, but sometimes ...
(20:40:25) MechtiIde: I don't want to be only observer of the election ,-)
(20:41:08) christoph_n: ... our deputies are also part of the OOo universe and are deeply involved. So asking them is good for "load peaks", but I would like to avoid that in general.
(20:41:41) christoph_n: Additionally, some of our agenda items seem to starve since months - maybe this has been noticed.
(20:42:16) christoph_n: This means, that either the owners are so busy that they cannot handle the work at all, or b) the work items are not that important.
(20:42:48) christoph_n: All those things can/should be tracked by us, the CC. So, I see no need (duty?) to share this work.
(20:42:51) mhu: ...or c) no easy solution to the problem
(20:43:00) christoph_n: mhu: Yes, true!
(20:43:25) christoph_n: But, as far as I understand, this is a question concerning the progress of the work. Or?
(20:43:59) mhu: when it is ideas that are missing, then maybe additional input is just what is missing, maybe
(20:44:27) ***mhu is just thinking loud
(20:44:45) christoph_n: mhu: Right, but we should / are able to ask / listen for external input all the time.
(20:44:58) christoph_n: (Leif: Good question, btw.)
(20:45:07) leiflodahl: thanks
(20:45:23) christoph_n: Leif, is that sufficient? Do you think it would help to actively involve the deputies?
(20:45:40) christoph_n: How to do that most efficiently?
(20:45:47) leiflodahl: Well I don't know.
(20:46:08) leiflodahl: Often when I participate in the meeting I have no idea of what is going on
(20:46:18) leiflodahl: Because I was not there last time
(20:46:30) leiflodahl: And I can't send to the list
(20:46:31) _Nesshof_ [~martin@nat/sun/x-mrejdzkcexfqnmmv] hat den Raum betreten.
(20:46:48) leiflodahl: So actually I don't think I do any good
(20:46:59) leiflodahl: Exept report back to Charles-H
(20:47:06) ***mhu thinks leiflodahl and other can send to list, only they may be moderated ?
(20:47:10) christoph_n: ... mmh ...
(20:47:23) christoph_n: Leif, I can only state how I handle that...
(20:47:51) erAck: Btw, where was this public Q&A announced, other than council-discuss@?
(20:47:51) leiflodahl: okay, but the discussion is openned now - right?
(20:47:52) christoph_n: ... If I am unavailable, then I summarize some of the ongoing effort for my deputy and send this to him via private mail.
(20:48:16) CorNouws: erAck: nowhere, AFAIK
(20:48:25) erAck: should we?
(20:48:36) christoph_n: Then, I try to tell him how I _personally_ feel about some things, so that he gets some idea of what is important to me. So he might make the best out of it. Additionally, ...
(20:48:37) mhu: was it not in the monthly newsletter ?
(20:48:48) CorNouws: christoph_n: still I do not understand why your reasoning is a good argument not to involve deputies
(20:49:08) CorNouws: but, as leif said: it now is our our agenda / radar
(20:49:16) christoph_n: ... I really try to make sure that my entries in the agends are up-to-date. Even if nothing thrilling happened.
(20:49:44) CorNouws: maybe, also just thinking loud, it is a matter of how member & deputy like to act, together
(20:49:46) christoph_n: Cor: I think Leif addressed another issue ... the issue of being a deputy stepping in (from time to time).
(20:50:00) leiflodahl: true
(20:50:24) leiflodahl: Of cause i have had a private talk with Charles before the meeting
(20:50:30) leiflodahl: but thats not the same
(20:50:37) CorNouws: ok - have to read again (was just out preventing some damage form rain, and moving my seat inside ;-) )
(20:50:58) leiflodahl: And some of the work in cc could be done by deputies
(20:50:59) christoph_n: Cor: Dangerous water comes from below ... ;-)
(20:51:02) erAck: mhu: just looked in announce@, wasn't in the July news.
(20:51:17) CorNouws: also, sometimes we discuss tipocs off list and not always involve deputies
(20:51:26) christoph_n: Cor: True ... :-(
(20:51:37) mhu: hmm, I thought I did read it somewhere, maybe that was wishful thinking
(20:52:04) christoph_n: On the other hand, how much work can be put on deputies ... we have so few resources, we should spent them wise ...
(20:52:22) christoph_n:
(20:53:06) MechtiIde: so I only read it because I'm still subscribed at discuss@cc. We should change this
(20:53:10) _Nesshof_: I'm prepared to ..
(20:53:11) christoph_n: So Leif, if you could chose (your favorite), what would help most: a) being involved, b) being informed via the Agenda wiki page, c) being updated on demand, d) [%your_answer%]
(20:53:52) leiflodahl: agenda wiki is what I do now
(20:54:05) christoph_n: (By the way, we might safely discuss that afterwards ... to make sure that we do this right).
(20:54:24) leiflodahl: having access to joim meetings (even when Charles is there) - I'll keep quiet
(20:54:30) leiflodahl: beeing involved in the work
(20:54:40) christoph_n: Mmh, to be honest, I'm sometimes not that happy about the status / quality of the agenda page...
(20:54:54) leiflodahl: agree
(20:54:59) ***mhu still thinks about CorNouws proposal to ask the "public" if the "public" does not ask us; shall we do that for the last 5 min ?
(20:55:28) christoph_n: From my point-of-view, if you would like to join, then you may provide useful input :-)
(20:55:39) leiflodahl: :)
(20:55:45) christoph_n: A proposal...
(20:56:22) CorNouws: I really appreciate Leif's idea/subject. Who wants to thrive that further on?
(20:56:24) christoph_n: Although we do have a Council Coordinator (the CCC *g*), sometimes it might be helpful to poke the CC members to improve the quality of the description of their work items. Because ...
(20:56:50) CorNouws: (christoph_n: sorry, did not wait long enough)
(20:57:15) christoph_n: ... if our deputies have problems to understand that, then the public does have that problem, too. Especially since our page is input for the OOo Newsletter. Just an idea ... sometimes we (participating in the meetings) are a bit blind, here. Any opinions on that?
(20:57:47) christoph_n: (Poke = if the agenda wiki content cannot be understood)
(20:58:41) leiflodahl: I think you use the wiki pages as internal pages. You know whats going on and who said what. It's not good as external information
(20:58:42) ***christoph_n thinks I accidentally finished the meeting :-)
(20:59:39) christoph_n: (Wait, I search some input...)
(21:01:02) christoph_n: One goal for our Council Meeting Guidelines: "Easier distribution of information for the community"
(21:01:11) christoph_n: From: <a href=""></a>
(21:01:29) christoph_n: If it looks like internal information, then we have to improve that, really!
(21:02:23) christoph_n: The meeting guidelines page: "The description should match the complexity of the action item and should be – hopefully – understandable without any further explanation."
(21:02:46) CorNouws: mhu: Looks we ran out of time for Q&A turned around this time
(21:03:00) CorNouws: christoph_n: leiflodahl: ok for now, To be continued?
(21:03:21) christoph_n: Leif? I'm okay with that...
(21:03:31) leiflodahl: ok for meThe topic is raised now for future decision
(21:03:45) mhu: CorNouws: well, at least we an item to discuss, thanks to leiflodahl
(21:03:49) christoph_n: I would be happy to discuss that with you...
(21:03:52) CorNouws: indeed - thanks
(21:04:05) leiflodahl: yeah thanks
(21:04:09) christoph_n: ... and a topic to act on: together ;-)
(21:04:30) christoph_n: Thanks to Mechtilde and Leif!
(21:04:43) CorNouws: bye for now for here ..

Community Council Session

(21:11:02) christoph_n: Congratulations to Andreas, happy that you joined!
(21:11:16) christoph_n: er[A]ck
(21:11:24) Andreas_UX: Well, thanks a lot! I
(21:11:26) CorNouws: we all try our best to make you feel at home :-D
(21:11:28) mhu: yes, welcome, Andreas
(21:11:36) Andreas_UX: I am at home :-)
(21:11:43) mhu: :-)
(21:11:49) christoph_n: Okay, please have our agenda and work status page ready: <a href=""></a>
(21:11:54) CorNouws: so that is an easy win ;-)
(21:11:58) Andreas_UX: sure!
(21:12:18) christoph_n: It seems that there hasn't been an update last time, so we have to start with what is there ...
(21:12:24) leiflodahl: I was confused by Date: 2010-07-01
(21:12:36) Andreas_UX: me too
(21:12:40) christoph_n: Leif, that means nobody took care :-(
(21:13:01) christoph_n: But if that helps: Today is one of the council agenda meetings ...
(21:13:26) christoph_n: ... if you have any doubts, then there is a calendar page for reference: <a href=""></a>
(21:13:40) christoph_n: Back to the agenda page and to AI 0:
(21:13:49) christoph_n: List of Action Items of previous meeting for approval
(21:14:14) christoph_n: Andreas, please have a look at the agenda items - if anything is weird, then raise your hand (button/keyboard/mouse/...).
(21:14:28) christoph_n: If not, then we just wait a few seconds before we go on ...
(21:14:32) Andreas_UX: ok I will
(21:14:37) ***mhu notes that Juergen updated his action item before he went on vacation
(21:14:50) ***christoph_n thinks that Jürgen is a good CC member :-)
(21:15:17) christoph_n: Okay, no vetoes. Okay, the next item is ...
(21:15:31) christoph_n: 2010-03-04#2: Refresh Incubator and NLC Project processes
(21:15:42) christoph_n: Since Louis is missing, we might skip it. Okay?
(21:15:54) CorNouws: Anyone knows where Louis hangs out?
(21:15:54) mhu: yes
(21:16:09) christoph_n: (Skipped a hundred times, grrrr.)
(21:16:20) CorNouws: I am a little bit concerned that our cm does not show signs of life and such
(21:16:40) Andreas_UX: when did he attend last time?
(21:16:43) christoph_n: Mmh, I was not aware that he is missing for some time?
(21:17:04) CorNouws: christoph_n: not too sarc* pls
(21:17:20) mhu: well, from time to time he shows up on other mailing lists; he's usually very busy with other stuff.
(21:17:27) christoph_n: Hey, I was serious about that ... I was absent, too.
(21:17:37) </font>_Nesshof_ hat den Raum verlassen (quit: Ping timeout: 246 seconds).
(21:17:46) christoph_n: Boring meeting?
(21:17:55) christoph_n: :-)
(21:18:07) christoph_n: Cor, continue ... or do you know more about Louis?
(21:18:36) CorNouws: hmm later, leave it now :-\
(21:18:43) christoph_n: 2010-03-04#3: Publicize the open slot at the start of the CC meetings
(21:18:55) CorNouws: This also has to be annouced at discuss@ , ...
(21:18:55) CorNouws: Maybe we evene discussed, but the I forgot to do it. Sorry.
(21:19:05) CorNouws: the = then
(21:19:09) mhu: done, except that "publish" may need to be better defined
(21:19:10) leiflodahl: is it at the start or 30 min before?
(21:19:16) christoph_n: And we should change QA -- Q&A
(21:19:24) Andreas_UX: yes please
(21:19:33) Andreas_UX: a bit confusing
(21:19:33) cd_oo: yes
(21:19:43) CorNouws: leiflodahl: at the start, not before
(21:19:46) christoph_n: Leif, I thought about the first 30 minutes.
(21:19:49) leiflodahl: thanks
(21:20:09) leiflodahl: call it 'ask the council'
(21:20:26) </font>_Nesshof_ [] hat den Raum betreten.
(21:20:26) christoph_n: Leif: We wanted to try that ... if we will need more time, then we'll reserve more time for that.
(21:20:32) christoph_n: (Welcome back!)
(21:20:33) leiflodahl: we have a Q&A project already
(21:21:10) christoph_n: Mmh, something "self speaking". Looks good, maybe more discussion than questions, but good.
(21:21:17) mhu: ...and publish it in a wider distribution than just <a href="mailto:discuss@cpuncil">discuss@cpuncil</a>
(21:21:35) mhu: s/cpuncil/council/
(21:21:36) erAck: also announce on dev@, many devs may not read discuss@ (anymore)
(21:21:38) leiflodahl: Ask NLC's to announce it
(21:21:58) christoph_n: Proposal: I'll summarize the given points in the action items and we keep it open, okay?
(21:22:08) christoph_n: items --> item
(21:22:15) leiflodahl: +1
(21:22:17) christoph_n: Any other issues with that?
(21:22:52) christoph_n: Cor: Skip 2010-03-04#6? It is stalled at the moment.
(21:23:34) christoph_n: Cor, your automatic reply doesn't work ;-)
(21:23:45) CorNouws: .
(21:23:51) christoph_n: Phew.
(21:23:55) leiflodahl: why is it stalled?
(21:24:02) christoph_n: Handing over to Cor...
(21:24:13) CorNouws: not opportune to pick up now
(21:25:06) leiflodahl: accepted
(21:25:12) christoph_n: But here comes a good opportunity :-)
(21:25:16) christoph_n: 2010-04-01#7: Talk to NLC about ‘NLC of the Month’ for OOo Newsletter
(21:25:30) christoph_n: Last update was 2010-04-01. Leif, maybe you know more?
(21:26:35) ***christoph_n thinks that auto-repliers are unreliable
(21:26:42) leiflodahl: Not more than expalined on the wiki
(21:27:14) christoph_n: Okay. Then could you please bother Charles to have a look at it? Even if it just says "updates to come"? Would be great!
(21:27:30) leiflodahl: I'll talk with Charles about it
(21:27:45) christoph_n: Thank you! Questions by others?
(21:27:53) leiflodahl: I can even offer him my help:-D
(21:28:00) christoph_n: Hehe, gooood point!
(21:28:07) christoph_n: Do you want to be my deputy ;-)
(21:28:31) christoph_n: Moving on ...
(21:28:33) leiflodahl: I only have one IRC account
(21:28:54) christoph_n: Well, okay. :-)
(21:29:07) christoph_n: 2010-04-01#1: Community situation
(21:29:32) christoph_n: It states "proposed to work on in Budapest". Is this still valid? Do we have a time-slice for that?
(21:29:36) leiflodahl: big topic, hah?
(21:30:01) christoph_n: Yep, from my pov...
(21:30:18) CorNouws: christoph_n: I did not see any proposal to change it, so let's continue
(21:30:28) leiflodahl: I would like to discuss one topic here
(21:30:30) ***erAck hasn't seen any time schedule yet for OOoCon.
(21:30:40) Andreas_UX: me neither
(21:30:52) CorNouws: I posted at the OOocon list about the community meetings on tuesday
(21:30:55) christoph_n: <a href=""></a> states: 2010-08-31
(21:31:05) CorNouws: will post to various dev# lists too
(21:31:17) CorNouws: christoph_n: yes, that is right
(21:31:56) christoph_n: Okay, then - to all - it would be great if you could reserve some time that day...
(21:32:08) CorNouws: and our council wiki states "Cor will prepare a proposal for an detailed agenda. "
(21:32:13) christoph_n: far as I know, Charles will arrive that morning.
(21:32:28) CorNouws: I intend to send a mail about that item soon (this month)
(21:32:28) CorNouws: or maybe even more mails ;-)
(21:32:50) CorNouws: christoph_n: useally all active members arrive early
(21:33:06) christoph_n: I'd hoped that only active members are at the OOoCon ;-)
(21:33:13) christoph_n: ... at all ;-)
(21:33:35) christoph_n: Leif, you talked about "one topic". Still valid?
(21:33:41) leiflodahl: yep
(21:33:54) leiflodahl: Tell me if it's out of topic
(21:34:06) christoph_n: Does this relate to the community situation? If not (really), then we usually add that at the end. But go on...
(21:34:37) leiflodahl: I think communication between developers (Oracle) and NLC is missing something
(21:35:07) CorNouws: something sometimes ?
(21:35:16) leiflodahl: The developrs wiki (Gullfos) is very inactive
(21:35:21) mhu: leiflodahl, can you explain ?
(21:35:31) leiflodahl: And the release plan for 3.3 lacs details
(21:35:35) Andreas_UX: gullfos is a blog right?
(21:35:41) leiflodahl: yep
(21:35:45) erAck: Andreas_UX: <a href=""></a>
(21:35:53) Andreas_UX: I know that
(21:35:56) Andreas_UX: one
(21:35:57) leiflodahl: Gullfoss has earlier been a very interesting and useful source of information
(21:36:17) Andreas_UX: I guess it will be that again after some time
(21:36:28) Andreas_UX: since we all are pretty busy currently
(21:36:30) leiflodahl: now it's only: m_x has been uploaded
(21:36:44) leiflodahl: okay
(21:36:45) _Nesshof_: release plans where in former times very tentative, I want only to publish the reliable dates there
(21:36:47) CorNouws: leiflodahl: I agree with that. Looks as if atm much energy is going somewhere else
(21:36:56) mhu: ...and gstreamer support added ...
(21:36:57) Andreas_UX: busy with migration etc
(21:37:08) leiflodahl: I don't even have a deadline for translation
(21:37:29) christoph_n: Okay, ...
(21:37:30) _Nesshof_: leiflodahl: that shouldn't be
(21:38:05) _Nesshof_: translation timelines should be clear, I will check with rafaella after her vacation
(21:38:14) _Nesshof_: next week
(21:38:15) leiflodahl: I cant plan translation nor testing when I don't know the dates
(21:38:37) CorNouws: translation deadline was published via <a href="mailto:dev@l10n">dev@l10n</a>
(21:38:39) christoph_n: ... let's simply state that the community outside Sun / Oracle experiences these effects since quite some months. And sometimes it is just unknown when "after some time" will be. (Speaking not about deadlines.)
(21:38:39) leiflodahl: I know other NLCs has same problem
(21:38:45) CorNouws: do you see that, Leif?
(21:39:13) leiflodahl: the dev@l10n?
(21:39:22) leiflodahl: Sorry no
(21:39:42) CorNouws: yes, <a href=""></a>
(21:39:57) leiflodahl: I could have missed it - sorry. But it should still be on the wiki?
(21:39:59) CorNouws: nevertheless: it should be at the wiki too
(21:40:10) _Nesshof_: CorNouws: ack
(21:40:33) CorNouws: and some deadline passed or shifted without notice, btw ;-)
(21:40:45) _Nesshof_: CorNouws: which ones ?
(21:42:04) christoph_n: Okay, question: Is the deadlines question answered (more or less)?
(21:42:18) CorNouws: forgot the details - can look it up, but André noticed, mailed
(21:42:39) leiflodahl: ok for me, but please have this in mind in the future
(21:42:47) christoph_n: Proposal ...
(21:42:59) CorNouws: _Nesshof_: subj "Status of l10n integration and CWS availability"
(21:43:19) _Nesshof_: what ML ?
(21:43:35) CorNouws: l10n-dev
(21:43:38) christoph_n: Leif, you raised a very valid point. I would like to ask you to summarize your perception and to send it to Cor who collects the items for the agenda. And, if you want to add some more urgent thoughts now, then feel free.
(21:43:52) christoph_n: Would that be okay?
(21:44:03) leiflodahl: sure :)
(21:44:05) CorNouws: yes pls, fitts well in the overall tipoc
(21:44:25) christoph_n: Thank you! And if we have some minutes left, I'm happy to join any discussion on that ... but, now:
(21:44:37) christoph_n: 2010-04-29#1: CC Election (Product Development Representative)
(21:44:45) christoph_n: ... was hopefully successful ;-)
(21:45:10) christoph_n: My thanks to all people who supported during the election ... and who took part by being nominated!
(21:45:12) CorNouws: Andreas has to prove that over the next months
(21:45:23) christoph_n: ... years ;-)
(21:45:30) Andreas_UX: oooh I will :-)
(21:45:36) christoph_n: oooh --> OOo
(21:45:44) CorNouws: :-)
(21:45:45) Andreas_UX: good one
(21:45:55) Andreas_UX: not even on purpose
(21:46:00) christoph_n: May I "finalize" the AI?
(21:46:09) erAck: yes
(21:46:11) mhu: +1
(21:46:11) leiflodahl: +1
(21:46:29) cd_oo: +1
(21:46:37) _Nesshof_: +1
(21:46:40) christoph_n: Andreas: Those questions are answered by all members here. A simple +1 is sufficient.
(21:46:49) christoph_n: Well, you are now part of the game :-)
(21:46:55) Andreas_UX: +1
(21:47:04) christoph_n: Well, and you may also use -1 if required ;-)
(21:47:35) christoph_n: Okay, general question: Do we have other elections planned? I don't know at the moment ...
(21:47:39) Andreas_UX: ... so let's play ;-)
(21:48:04) christoph_n: Andreas: Then please "p(l)ay the bill" :-)
(21:48:13) Andreas_UX: how about Chief World Officer (CWO) :-)
(21:48:34) Andreas_UX: if no other elections are planned
(21:48:53) Andreas_UX: just kidding back to serious
(21:49:14) christoph_n: Well, I don't know who is the "most experienced CC member" at the moment...
(21:49:33) CorNouws: just one item left on the agenda?
(21:49:35) ***mhu thinks, martin and me
(21:49:55) ***_Nesshof_ is not a regular member any more :-)
(21:50:06) CorNouws: indeed, martin is deputy
(21:50:14) mhu: yes, but still experienced :-)
(21:50:28) christoph_n: Mmh, then the next election would target you, Matthias?
(21:50:50) ***christoph_n wonders whether "target" is a good word for that
(21:50:59) christoph_n: Sorry!
(21:51:01) mhu: well, that would be Louis and me; see the minutes of some recent meeting
(21:51:49) christoph_n: So I propose we discuss that at the OOoCon and we continue with the next election? I think there is much to do until OOoCon... any objections?
(21:52:11) Andreas_UX: no
(21:52:17) mhu: and proposal was, to do that some time after ooocon, when new members have acquainted somewhat
(21:52:28) christoph_n: Ah, okay. Thanks!
(21:52:30) Andreas_UX: good idea
(21:52:47) christoph_n: (I'm still working on my emails ... not to speak about IRC logs.)
(21:52:54) christoph_n: Okay, then ...
(21:53:05) christoph_n: 2010-04-29#2: Missing OOo desktop presence
(21:53:22) erAck: This "2010-06-08: Some opinions have been requested by people who initially worked in the branding initiative." should read "requested from people" instead, or am I mistaken?
(21:53:51) christoph_n: (Yes.)
(21:54:25) christoph_n: As most of you know, I was a bit offline (off-board) for some weeks ... so this topic was a bit stalled. Nevertheless, Stefan and I discussed to go on by asking for an I-Team and to contact the product management at Oracle.
(21:54:27) mhu: answering "yes" to an "or" question is always funny :-)
(21:54:39) christoph_n: (Yes.) ;-)
(21:55:06) christoph_n: Martin, do you know more?
(21:55:52) _Nesshof_: yes, there was an meeting with "product mgmt" at oracle, but I think Andreas_UX knows more than me
(21:56:10) Andreas_UX: I knew you'd say that
(21:56:36) christoph_n: (Management by forwarding is this called in my company...)
(21:56:59) _Nesshof_: I think we will see some movement after vacation time
(21:57:00) Andreas_UX: yes, there was one with Michael Bemmer et al.
(21:57:22) Andreas_UX: outcome is that Mkt made a decision that is supposed to be communicated shortly
(21:57:40) christoph_n: So there is some progress? What does it mean "communicated", to whom?
(21:57:58) Andreas_UX: announced publically
(21:58:04) Andreas_UX: via Gullfoss I guess
(21:58:06) CorNouws: Andreas_UX: Mkt = marketing?
(21:58:10) Andreas_UX: yed
(21:58:13) Andreas_UX: yes, sorry
(21:58:43) christoph_n: Does it address the concerns of the community? Do you know that already?
(21:58:46) CorNouws: I guess the decision will be that they start to communicate with us about possiblities?
(21:58:50) Andreas_UX: icons will be redesigned, for the long run, with constraints
(21:58:55) CorNouws: No need to put that on GullFoss
(21:59:11) Andreas_UX: ooh, there is
(21:59:20) Andreas_UX: need
(21:59:32) CorNouws: Andreas_UX: sorry, I was not fully serious and
(21:59:39) Andreas_UX: got it
(21:59:40) leiflodahl: Can it be right, that a topic on CC agenda lacks information from marketing?
(21:59:49) CorNouws: my second sentence wat not a rely on yours just before ;-)
(22:00:08) CorNouws: s/rely/reply
(22:00:13) Andreas_UX: :-)
(22:00:26) christoph_n: Cor's keyboard is sometimes just weird...
(22:00:31) Andreas_UX: leif, I guess so
(22:00:54) Andreas_UX: motivation was, current design fails usability
(22:01:05) Andreas_UX: and consumes too much resources
(22:01:06) christoph_n: ... fails "community" as well
(22:01:17) Andreas_UX: self evidently
(22:01:33) Andreas_UX: that can not continue
(22:01:44) Andreas_UX: so, redesign with focus on usability
(22:01:52) CorNouws: good news, thanks
(22:01:55) Andreas_UX: with constraints of course
(22:02:11) christoph_n: Last question: Do you know if the community (however) will take part?
(22:02:15) Andreas_UX: constraints that will be communicated by marketing
(22:02:23) Andreas_UX: ""
(22:02:25) Andreas_UX: waut
(22:02:27) Andreas_UX: wait
(22:02:58) Andreas_UX: This project will be run open with all necessary involvements
(22:03:09) Andreas_UX: that is what was saif
(22:03:12) Andreas_UX: said
(22:03:17) Andreas_UX: Cor do we have same keyboards
(22:03:19) Andreas_UX: ?
(22:03:28) christoph_n: Andreas: May I put that on the agenda / work status?
(22:03:34) Andreas_UX: sure
(22:03:36) christoph_n: Great!
(22:03:39) erAck: christoph_n: that was the intend of the approach to form an i-team
(22:03:56) CorNouws: maybe mkt can communicate before about constraints they have in mind
(22:04:18) CorNouws: not that they cannot choose that they thinkwhat is necessary, but
(22:04:30) Andreas_UX: agree but that is not always easy
(22:04:32) CorNouws: talking before (...) may help understanding
(22:04:34) christoph_n: erAck: Yesno. First we talked about a refreshed I-Team. Then we wanted to talk who will take part in detail.
(22:05:28) christoph_n: Cor, Andreas: So the proposal is to ask Andreas/Martin to talk about our concerns within Oracle?
(22:05:38) CorNouws: just a tip... others may have other points of view that can be incorporated, may. I just don't know, but it is a chance
(22:05:38) christoph_n: Would that be sufficient at the moment?
(22:06:25) CorNouws: anyway: look foreward to what will follow
(22:06:33) Andreas_UX: me too
(22:06:38) CorNouws: :-)
(22:06:52) christoph_n: I thought we had the "me too" approach ;-)
(22:07:13) Andreas_UX: I thought we got rid of that desease
(22:07:22) christoph_n: Okay, then again: Would be great if Andreas/Martin could bring that to Oracle...
(22:07:39) Andreas_UX: we are Oracle :-)
(22:07:45) christoph_n: ... until there is any sign (of relief *g*), I would like to keep that AI open.
(22:07:52) christoph_n: (Andreas_UX: We are family!)
(22:08:01) christoph_n: Any objections?
(22:08:03) Andreas_UX: no
(22:08:08) leiflodahl: -1
(22:08:10) CorNouws: no
(22:08:17) cd_oo: no
(22:08:24) mhu: okay
(22:08:30) christoph_n: (I should ask for positive feedback ...)
(22:08:34) christoph_n: (Sorry)
(22:08:39) erAck: ok, no ...
(22:08:55) christoph_n: Thanks Andreas, Cor, Martin!
(22:08:59) christoph_n: Well ...
(22:09:00) _Nesshof_: no
(22:09:10) christoph_n: ... any topics you would like to add for today's meeting?
(22:09:16) CorNouws: maybe cd has any news to bring from himself/Jürgen?
(22:09:27) christoph_n: His vacation?
(22:09:28) christoph_n: ;-)
(22:09:59) leiflodahl: When do we have beer?
(22:10:11) Andreas_UX: right now ;-)
(22:10:12) christoph_n: I thought all the time ;-)
(22:10:29) leiflodahl: Explains the keyboard problems in Holland
(22:10:39) Andreas_UX: good one
(22:10:44) christoph_n: Andreas_UX: Sheds some strange light on UX...
(22:10:49) cd_oo: CorNouws: Sorry, I have no news.
(22:10:56) christoph_n: Okay, if there is no further "tipoc"...
(22:11:02) CorNouws: serious proposal: maximum amout of funny remarks/member/meeting
(22:11:18) Andreas_UX: we can top that
(22:11:25) CorNouws: not to strict, lets say 4 or 5?
(22:11:25) christoph_n: ... I would like to ask all AI owners to update their AIs within the next 24 hours (!).
(22:11:39) christoph_n: And, please consider Leif's remark concerning understandability.
(22:11:40) Andreas_UX: sir, yes, sir
(22:11:59) Andreas_UX: ok, I will stop writing in Klingon
(22:12:08) christoph_n: I'll update the item "open slot ... Q&A".
(22:12:36) christoph_n: (Klingons drink beer?)
(22:12:38) ***erAck takes a sip of "Secret de Campagne" and hopes the keyboard will cooperate..
(22:12:53) ***christoph_n thinks of "Stroh 80" ;-)
(22:13:11) Andreas_UX: met him years ago
(22:13:24) CorNouws: will all of us be at Budapest?
(22:13:32) Andreas_UX: I hope so
(22:13:33) christoph_n: I will ...
(22:13:33) erAck: hopefully
(22:13:39) _Nesshof_: may be
(22:13:41) mhu: hopefully
(22:13:45) CorNouws: I will
(22:13:50) christoph_n: Leif?
(22:13:52) cd_oo: No, I won't attend this time
(22:14:04) Andreas_UX: My presentation got accepted, so I guess I will be there
(22:14:11) christoph_n: Carsten, what a pity :-(
(22:14:14) CorNouws: cd_oo: sorry to read, I'll miss you
(22:14:21) cd_oo: Don
(22:14:22) leiflodahl: I'll be there
(22:14:25) Andreas_UX: we'll probably fly over PAris
(22:14:30) Andreas_UX: it is a tradition
(22:14:52) cd_oo: Don't worry. Next time I want to attend.
(22:15:00) erAck: don't the flights to Budapest go via Moscow?
(22:15:02) christoph_n: Well, I think the official part is finished. Thank you all for your attendance today!

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