Community Council Log 20090430

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IRC Log of Community Council Meeting 2009-04-30


  • Sophie Gautier (sophi)
  • Martin Hollmichel (_Nesshof_1, too)
  • Matthias Huetsch (mhu)
  • Cor Nouws (CorNouws)
  • André Schnabel (Thalion72)
  • Pavel Janik (paveljanik)
  • Louis Suárez-Potts (louis_to)
14:43:46 CorNouws André will join soon - shall we start? 
14:44:15 louis_to yes. 
14:44:21 mhu yes 
14:44:24 jpmcc CorNouws: thanks for the phone call :-) 
14:44:44 louis_to shall go down the list? 
14:44:51 louis_to 1. approval of prior minutes 
14:45:24 CorNouws nothing to aprove, as far as I see .. 
14:45:42 louis_to ? 
14:45:44 louis_to oops. 
14:45:50 louis_to sorry, 
14:45:56 CorNouws We can take the AI's 
14:46:00 louis_to sees that the minutes and irc are in my queue 
14:46:10 louis_to agreed 
14:46:38 CorNouws expects Louis to have a longggg que 
14:46:42 louis_to #1: budget call 
14:46:48 louis_to I meant my outmail q. 
14:47:08 CorNouws louis_to: :-) 
14:47:16 louis_to I'll send out new doodle nag 
14:47:24 *** Thalion72 ( has joined the channel 
14:47:28 CorNouws Thanks 
14:47:30 louis_to I recieved only 2 responses to the first effort 
14:47:37 louis_to and despite a nag, nothing 
14:47:41 louis_to so, will send out new one 
14:47:46 louis_to hello André 
14:47:48 CorNouws Hi André, Louis just announcing a new request for special budget meeting 
14:47:48 louis_to we just started 
14:47:58 Thalion72 Hi .. sorry for being late and thanks to Cor for calling 
14:48:14 louis_to #2: Matthias: money on account and estimates for incomes and taxes to pay 
14:48:20 louis_to any update? 
14:48:35 CorNouws Thalion72: jpmcc: don't tell them I call you, now the others never will ginve me their phone nrs! 
14:48:39 mhu yep, working with Martin on taxes ... 
14:49:02 louis_to okay... any idea of delivery date? 
14:49:07 mhu ...will send amount of money to members privately, but not publicly 
14:49:32 _Nesshof_1 waiting for the tax office to call :-/ 
14:49:43 louis_to ugh. (/me notes that today is tax day in canada0 
14:49:57 _Nesshof_1 louis_to: in Germany as well 
14:50:00 CorNouws mhu: ok for me - look forward to the info 
14:50:01 louis_to okay, we'll periodically nag on this 
14:50:02 mhu ...found my budget spreadsheet cited and linked in some random blog / online article, and dont like that 
14:50:03 louis_to :-) 
14:50:16 louis_to #3: Send estimates for several important upcoming events to budget@ 
14:50:21 louis_to okay, I've been stymied here 
14:50:55 CorNouws louis_to: your risk as well, that money runs out .. 
14:51:00 louis_to There are several I think we ought to attend, such as Oscon, but I have no real way of estimating costs associated with attending/participating there, except in the roughest way 
14:51:16 mhu ...will discuss with you in our budget call, if you so like. 
14:51:16 louis_to I am less concerned about that. 
14:51:21 louis_to please, let's 
14:51:46 louis_to for now, I'll ask that we please propose meaningful events coming up and use the wiki once upon a time created for thiis 
14:51:52 louis_to and if it is not there now, to create a new one.... 
14:52:07 mhu was still talking about AI #2 ... and dont wants to irritate anyone 
14:52:10 louis_to AI: louis to send to project leads notice 
14:52:11 louis_to ah 
14:52:36 louis_to notes he's sent such a notice before... but this time with $ there ought to be a difference 
14:52:59 louis_to 2: SPI: there is no meaningful update, but am curious what kind of update is wanted here? 
14:53:18 CorNouws how much money will come to us and how ?? 
14:53:31 louis_to we have already dealt with that 
14:53:37 CorNouws see log of previous meeting, I guess 
14:53:37 sophi CorNouws: depends on donators :) 
14:53:38 louis_to it's just that we have little view 
14:53:47 louis_to yes. 
14:53:51 louis_to here is the situation 
14:54:08 mhu have not attempted an exact summary, but its somewhere around 2K - 3K total so far 
14:54:09 louis_to the SPI treasurer is a nice guy and he alone has full view of $ 
14:54:24 louis_to we can ask him for status reports 
14:54:29 louis_to but cannot do it ourselves 
14:54:41 louis_to so, we can periodically query the treasurer 
14:54:51 louis_to meanwhile, I relay new donation notices to Matthias 
14:55:02 louis_to to get money, we ask the treasurer for it 
14:55:04 mhu we have to manually count notification emails per donation 
14:55:08 louis_to yes. 
14:55:15 CorNouws louis_to: mhu: very clear, thanks 
14:55:33 louis_to well, it's clear but it's also to me unsatisfactory 
14:55:50 CorNouws louis_to: but not much we can do at it? 
14:55:53 louis_to however, the treasurer takes the work out of taxes, tabulation, accounting, so that we just ask for money 
14:56:10 louis_to until we get on the board and try to change rules (or maybe before then), not really 
14:56:26 louis_to the situation has plusses and minusses 
14:56:50 louis_to we could develop the marketing ngo, as long discussed (this would not hold IP) 
14:56:59 louis_to and that would give us more control--and more work 
14:57:06 CorNouws OK for me for now ... few months agoo we knew close to nothing, IIRC 
14:57:29 louis_to correct. We now at least we know close to nothing ;-) 
14:57:41 louis_to #3: trademark: updates? 
14:57:54 Thalion72 well .. we know what to do, if we want to know more 
14:58:05 louis_to Thalion72: yes. we ping the treasurer 
14:58:17 louis_to treasurer at spi 
14:58:33 sophi louis_to: entering a process and/or a group is not so easy, it means time also 
14:58:59 sophi louis_to: I mean for people already in the group to know you :) 
14:59:22 louis_to you refer to working wiht SPI? Yes, indeed. and it is a group of foss opinionated people 
14:59:34 *** paveljanik (n=Pavel@unaffiliated/paveljanik) has joined the channel 
14:59:37 paveljanik Hi 
14:59:39 louis_to I think I know nearly all of them, and you, sophi, have been in the game longer than I, so ... 
14:59:41 louis_to hi paveljanik 
14:59:43 paveljanik Sorry for being late. 
14:59:44 louis_to we are here: 
14:59:49 louis_to 
14:59:53 sophi louis_to: yes, so not so easy to change all in one time 
14:59:59 louis_to Cor is shepherding us along :-) 
15:00:14 louis_to so, to # 3, Trademark: updates? 
15:00:23 CorNouws _Nesshof_1: started a new discussion on the trademark, with Bernard,isn't it? 
15:00:40 louis_to _Nesshof_: would you want to summarize? 
15:00:48 Thalion72 CorNouws: not really a new discussion with Bernhard 
15:01:04 CorNouws Thalion72: Sorry new = 'new' 
15:01:17 CorNouws Thalion72: But what is your take on it? 
15:01:28 Thalion72 just the question, what the purpose of the TM-policy is .. what was more or less unanswered 
15:01:37 sophi for the moment trademarks are stalled because we don't know how to qualify our product 
15:01:53 _Nesshof_1 sophi: :-( 
15:01:56 CorNouws So only themost basical thing in this subject ;-) 
15:02:45 CorNouws tooling was suggested, investigated and failed to pass - too complicated 
15:03:03 CorNouws what wat the other option, could we continue at that point again? 
15:03:12 _Nesshof_1 for trademark, I really would like to know which is the problem we would like to adress 
15:03:45 sophi _Nesshof_1: my last answer on the list answers your question 
15:04:19 *** _Nesshof_ has quit IRC ("Leaving.") 
15:05:08 CorNouws sophi: 21-4-09 10:21 ? 
15:05:40 louis_to is confused and returns to _Nesshof_1's point 
15:05:55 sophi CorNouws: yes 
15:05:57 louis_to what are the problems? 
15:05:58 _Nesshof_1 sophi: not really, at least I don't understand the answer 
15:06:40 CorNouws _Nesshof_1: sophi: May I propose that we make this point, only this one, very clear before next cc meeting? 
15:06:42 sophi _Nesshof_1: you said "My take on that would be that the builds that get approved by the OOo QA > can be called then " 
15:06:49 CorNouws looks as a majog gain to me. 
15:07:01 CorNouws llooks as a major gain to me. 
15:07:20 Thalion72 sophi: this is a suggestion "how to define what is OOo" - to the answer to the question "why do we need a tm-policy" 
15:07:44 sophi Thalion72: my question : But how a companies will get this approval? For example my company is distributing modified versions of OOo for their customers and different versions for each customer. Some are binaries+configurations others are patched versions needing to build them from sources. >>>> 
15:08:12 Thalion72 sophi: still no answer to "why do we need a tm-policy" 
15:08:37 CorNouws May I suggest that we make this point, only this one, very clear before next cc meeting? 
15:08:53 CorNouws Just because I think we need to think about it, more than time now allows us to do 
15:09:15 sophi I'm requested from several companies/project if they are allowed use the name+logo if they modify it, I have no answer but ask on the marketing list, I know they don't do it 
15:09:32 Thalion72 CorNouws: I'd like to add - if we cannot work out this point, we should stop all work on tm policy 
15:09:51 CorNouws Thalion72: Obviously... 
15:10:00 *** _Nesshof_ ( has joined the channel 
15:10:05 CorNouws So the conclusion should be: we have to fine out ?? 
15:10:11 Thalion72 sophi: allow them to use the name and logo. 
15:10:52 CorNouws sophi: Yes, as long as there is no 'policy' that is our policy ;-) 
15:10:59 sophi Thalion72: ah, yes, why not, if we can't define our product, that mean that we do not have a product finally 
15:11:30 CorNouws :-D Enough on this point, AFAIAC - move on? 
15:11:37 Thalion72 CorNouws: +1 
15:11:54 _Nesshof_1 still is unsatisfied 
15:12:07 CorNouws joins Martin 
15:12:33 CorNouws OK elections then. 
15:12:46 CorNouws I like John's statement in the mail about that 
15:13:42 Thalion72 Ok .. for the elections - I'll do a call for help tomorrow (to find observers) 
15:14:03 louis_to thanks 
15:14:10 louis_to but, Thalion72: it's may day tomorrow 
15:14:18 Thalion72 I'd like to have Stefan as one of the observers (he needs to setup the server anyway, so we need his help) 
15:14:20 louis_to there is a very good chance that many peoiple will be absent 
15:14:42 Thalion72 louis_to: Mail is a medium that does not vanish the other day 
15:15:23 sophi Thalion72: depends of the number of mail per day ;-) 
15:15:27 mhu Thalion72: if I can help in any way, please say so, and I try what I can 
15:15:38 louis_to Thalion72: I am aware of that. just wanted to alert you that many will have huge inboxes on Monday or so 
15:16:08 Thalion72 louis_to: those people would be wrong candidates for observers anyway ;) 
15:16:31 sophi Thalion72: +1 :) 
15:16:41 Thalion72 people who tned to ignore mails are no good candidates to observe a process that is organized via mail 
15:17:02 louis_to agreed. I have no argument against proceeding on mayday; my point was informative. 
15:17:15 Thalion72 louis_to: ok :) 
15:17:43 Thalion72 mhu: maybe poke some project leads to check the list of project leads 
15:17:56 mhu okay, will do 
15:18:20 Thalion72 if all goes well, we might announce elections end of next week ... or do you see conflicts with 3.1 release? 
15:18:30 louis_to Thalion72: I do not 
15:18:31 Thalion72 (imho this is not related) 
15:18:48 louis_to there is enough news around OOo that any more won't really affect things, I would (cynically) guess 
15:19:25 louis_to and I think that having elections would be good.... 
15:19:35 Thalion72 :) +1 
15:19:42 jpmcc +1 
15:19:45 louis_to +1 
15:19:46 Thalion72 ok .. other questions to the elections? 
15:19:58 louis_to Thalion72: you have my thanks. 
15:20:15 louis_to and if I see you again soon, as much beer :-) 
15:20:23 CorNouws Thalion72: no thanks, all clear now (after reading the charter again) and thanks from me as well 
15:20:41 sophi Thalion72: yes, thanks :) 
15:21:10 louis_to shall we move on to next item? 
15:21:16 Thalion72 +1 
15:21:20 sophi louis_to: yes please 
15:21:27 louis_to that may require STX!12 
15:21:44 louis_to : l10n infrastructure 
15:21:55 louis_to can _Nesshof_ or MHU or someone else, (sophi?) speak to it? 
15:22:05 CorNouws Yes, he wrote an update in hismail 
15:22:07 CorNouws A discussion of the handling of l10n builds has been started at dev@l10n but has not yet come to a general conclusion. But the urgent need for the 2 languages sh, sr have been resolved. 
15:22:07 mhu but stx12 did send some status ? 
15:22:28 louis_to yes, CorNouws: relayed it just now 
15:22:31 CorNouws CorNouws: I qouted Stefans mail, just to explain 
15:22:46 CorNouws louis_to: indeed ;-) 
15:23:10 CorNouws OK, then next item? 
15:23:17 louis_to 
15:23:23 Thalion72 mhu: there are some ideas at the l10n list .. but nothing really agreed yet 
15:23:32 louis_to next item: Cor: project improvement page: further clarification 
15:24:11 CorNouws Yes, I used the discussion fromprevious meeting to better understand the questions .. 
15:24:16 CorNouws and changed a bit on the wiki 
15:24:45 louis_to CorNouws: how so? 
15:24:55 louis_to looks for url of wiki.... 
15:24:58 CorNouws And I saw some great (sort of new) issues on the dev-list , that are good to mention on the page 
15:25:12 CorNouws i.e. modularisation and such 
15:25:19 CorNouws 
15:25:28 louis_to then you may wish to look at our to-dos.... 
15:25:43 louis_to modularisation has long been a desiderata, along with new architecture in general 
15:25:45 CorNouws it is linke from the cc wiki main page - the way I find it as well 
15:25:48 louis_to thanks 
15:26:10 sophi CorNouws: I won't have time before june to add links on explanation pages for the items I've added, but will do 
15:26:16 CorNouws louis_to: I know, but now the process is visible and people can join, work on it together 
15:26:28 CorNouws sophi: Thanks. 
15:26:43 CorNouws I'll put some links on it next weeks .. 
15:27:01 CorNouws can then someone else ask on projectleads@ for additional info? 
15:27:08 louis_to yes 
15:27:19 CorNouws louis_to: thanks. 
15:27:24 mhu as Kay wrote, this Modularization is related to ESC discussions / dashboard 
15:27:33 sophi CorNouws: thanks to you 
15:27:34 louis_to but what precisely do you want in the new info? 
15:27:48 louis_to general: improvement? or specific topics, categories? 
15:27:55 *** _Nesshof_ has quit IRC (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) 
15:28:15 _Nesshof_1 feels alone 
15:28:21 louis_to :-) 
15:28:30 CorNouws louis_to: anything we think is worth mentioning, that people might want or need to know, to have a good impression of the project .. 
15:28:30 mhu :-) 
15:28:44 louis_to okay. 
15:29:00 CorNouws If no one has a remark / question now ... 
15:29:21 louis_to will send out project leads note ... 
15:29:45 louis_to OOo Internship: 
15:29:54 CorNouws louis_to: can you wait till I ping you, cause I think it is clearer if somelinks are in place first 
15:30:01 louis_to CorNouws: yes 
15:30:07 CorNouws louis_to: thanks 
15:30:24 louis_to I think the internship item needs to be tabled for now 
15:30:38 CorNouws 3.1 - 3.3 are informative 
15:30:38 louis_to and would suggest we move on to "Proposal for role of .. coordinator" 
15:30:49 CorNouws louis_to: ok for me 
15:31:05 louis_to CorNouws: yes. We are still working on this issue, however, and it depends to a degree on Stefan... 
15:31:11 louis_to So, #4: coordinator 
15:31:14 sophi louis_to: ok for me too 
15:31:19 louis_to I think we all voted on this, no? I voted late 
15:31:21 Thalion72 ok to move on (no questions to the internship atm) 
15:31:33 louis_to and all voted +1 
15:31:41 _Nesshof_1 +1 
15:31:52 paveljanik now :-) 
15:32:04 louis_to I would thus propose that we go with the coordinator idea. 
15:32:16 louis_to are there any objections to it? 
15:32:30 sophi louis_to: not from me 
15:32:43 CorNouws nor from me :-) 
15:32:58 Thalion72 no objection but one question: who to assign the role? 
15:33:02 sophi louis_to: I didn't vote on Terry but I do now :) 
15:33:24 jpmcc Are we happy to bring in someone not on the cc to do the job? I'm ok with it... 
15:33:30 louis_to :-) 
15:33:36 CorNouws sophi: hmm, bit confused 
15:33:36 Thalion72 I'm ok with this as well 
15:33:40 _Nesshof_1 jpmcc: +1 
15:33:49 louis_to jpmcc: would that require a re-write of the charter? 
15:33:58 sophi CorNouws: why? 
15:33:59 louis_to as these meetings are closed, I thought 
15:34:11 _Nesshof_1 louis_to: I don't think so 
15:34:18 CorNouws I thought the discussion with Terri was that she has to be on the council first? 
15:34:20 _Nesshof_1 as there is no power to vote 
15:34:33 louis_to however, we had discussions bfore about "observers" 
15:34:49 louis_to and non-voting persons, and that was not approved before.... 
15:34:52 jpmcc I think the meetings are closed ... but the minutes an AIs are public, so the co-ordinator should be able to work from those? 
15:35:15 CorNouws jpmcc: does not sound so logic ... and what about 4 to 5 months? 
15:35:19 mhu agrees with John 
15:36:00 CorNouws but I do not object, if we want Terri to help in this way, of course. 
15:36:01 louis_to proposal: that we grant the Coordinator the right and obligation to attend CC meetings to take notes, derive minutes, etc. but that the Coordinator shall not be construed to have voting powers 
15:36:14 louis_to notes that Terri may have been joking 
15:36:28 louis_to please indicate vote on proposal and discuss, of course, if needed 
15:36:34 CorNouws doesn't think so 
15:37:09 mhu thinks Terri is a longtime observer 
15:37:18 jpmcc +1 
15:37:18 louis_to please, let's focus on the proposal... 
15:37:21 louis_to thx 
15:37:46 mhu +1 (meaning: okay, why not) 
15:37:50 CorNouws louis_to: what you propose is ok for the time that Terri,, as non cc member is coordiantor 
15:37:59 CorNouws not forthe period therafter, I guess 
15:38:14 louis_to "terri" or any other person who occupies the Coordinator role 
15:38:28 Thalion72 CorNouws: I don't see, why this should be bound to "terri" 
15:38:36 louis_to indeed 
15:38:38 CorNouws If that person is not a cc member... 
15:38:49 CorNouws but one of the ideas behind the proposal was ... 
15:38:58 CorNouws that being couordiantord and cc member 
15:39:13 CorNouws enhances the invilved of all the individual members ... :-( 
15:39:33 mhu would prefer someone like Cor being the Coordinator, he did a good job already 
15:39:43 louis_to then you specify that the Coordinator must be a CC member? 
15:39:56 louis_to that's fine with me... I just want to identify the precise point 
15:40:01 mhu but if the only alternative is Terri, I'd go for Terri 
15:40:04 CorNouws mhu: thanks, but still the idea, on which we agreed, says: 4 to 5 months :-) 
15:40:18 louis_to let's us first resolve: 
15:40:24 CorNouws louis_to: pls read what you voted for ! 
15:40:24 louis_to Must the Coordinator be a CC member 
15:40:30 louis_to (let us not bring in Terri, please) 
15:40:54 louis_to Cor; I am trying to be flexible here 
15:41:07 CorNouws louis_to: why? 
15:41:17 CorNouws we just voted for something 
15:41:21 mhu has a hard limit of 4 minutes remaining ... dinner is waiting ... getting cold 
15:41:23 CorNouws and before the first step 
15:41:28 CorNouws leave the idea ??? 
15:41:39 jpmcc If the CC members had been good at organising the,selves, we would not be having this conversation. So +1 to bring someone in who can help us :) 
15:42:00 CorNouws mhu may buy a microwave fromthe cc budget ;-) 
15:42:00 sophi the one who wants to do the job should have it being a CC member or not 
15:42:20 CorNouws sophi: what does the proposal, you agreed with, say? 
15:42:30 louis_to I would then ask that we return to the mail list and table the vote until next meeting, as we are not --NOT-- in agreement as to whether the Coordinator shall be a CC member 
15:43:00 louis_to we must resolve that point. We voted all of us that it be a CC member but now are deviating 
15:43:03 sophi CorNouws: having a coordinator for the meeting, I didn't vote on the last one I guess :) 
15:43:07 CorNouws Yes, and then not only a coordinator who pokes us, but also helpes reading?? 
15:43:09 louis_to therefore, we need to return to that issue 
15:43:35 Thalion72 louis_to: well ... CorNouws is right. we all voted on his proposal and this includes that "he/she is chosen from the council members" 
15:43:38 louis_to I am therefore tabling that item and asking we discuss ithat issue on the list 
15:43:41 CorNouws louis_to: OK to get back to the list, to clear this up, of course 
15:43:44 louis_to yes. 
15:44:01 louis_to Thalion72: I am acknowledging CorNouws's point 
15:44:25 louis_to Do we wish to move on to the next items? 
15:44:36 louis_to I would ask that we skip #5 
15:44:57 Thalion72 ok .. but I get the impression that council votes to not count a pence 
15:45:09 louis_to Thalion72? 
15:45:11 CorNouws louis_to: Yes, I think that is not in the rigth place - done already with the AI's 
15:45:47 CorNouws Thalion72: (Maybe you look at an older version of the agenda?) 
15:45:50 louis_to then I would ask that we have a quick roundtable (and Thalion72: can explain what he meant...louis is puzzled) 
15:46:17 CorNouws Only item left is 6: Guidelines for bundling extensions 
15:46:23 louis_to yes. 
15:46:26 louis_to if we skip #5 
15:46:53 louis_to So: do we wish to go on to #6? 
15:46:58 jpmcc +1 
15:47:01 louis_to 1. Guidelines for bundling extensions 
15:47:01 louis_to issue 100836 requests the removal of the writer2latex extension from OOo 3.1 (raised as showstopper) 
15:47:01 louis_to reason was given in issue 100744 as "According to our guidelines for bundling extensions we cannot bundle extensions which are not covered by the guidelines to contribute (meaning SCA)." 
15:47:01 louis_to Question to the council: where are those guidelines, who approved these guidelines at what time? 
15:47:14 louis_to 
15:47:21 louis_to 
15:47:23 Thalion72 as I put this to the agenda for the last meeting ... 
15:47:55 _Nesshof_1 Thalion72: I think we resolved this issue last meeting 
15:48:04 _Nesshof_1 this was a mistake of min 
15:48:07 Thalion72 this is resolved for me, as martin answered at the releases list 
15:48:10 sophi Thalion72: but from what I remember, Martin explained what he meant 
15:48:16 Thalion72 yes 
15:48:34 _Nesshof_1 we don't have yet guidelines for bundling extensions 
15:48:39 _Nesshof_1 but working on that 
15:49:15 louis_to _Nesshof_1: do we have a due date, or guess? 
15:49:24 louis_to as this issue has been around since at least Beijing 
15:49:27 CorNouws 
15:49:32 louis_to thanks 
15:49:54 Thalion72 Im fine with this - my point was just the false reference to "the agreed guidelines" 
15:50:02 sophi louis_to: at least since SCA ;-) 
15:50:15 louis_to :-) 
15:50:23 _Nesshof_1 I think we will resolve this issue before the next release 
15:50:27 _Nesshof_1 July or so 
15:50:33 sophi _Nesshof_1: great, thanks 
15:50:37 louis_to yes. 
15:50:47 louis_to do we have time for a quick roundtable? 
15:51:00 louis_to it can also be done on the mail list 
15:51:09 _Nesshof_1 yes, fyi: I will announce in next release status meeting ... 
15:51:10 louis_to but I thought it useful to introduce that idea to us 
15:51:34 _Nesshof_1 ... that I will step back from my active role in this meeting .. 
15:51:48 _Nesshof_1 ... to a more passive role in that meeting ... 
15:52:14 louis_to okay... 
15:52:21 _Nesshof_1 martin damboldt agreed to take over the active, driving part of that meeting ... 
15:52:52 louis_to well, if no one is interested in volunteering roundtable now, please, if you can, send an update of what you are doing (and also commiunity you may speak for) to the council list before next meeting. 
15:52:57 _Nesshof_1 but of course I still take responsible of the result of that meeting towards CC 
15:53:19 louis_to is there any new business for this meeting? 
15:53:30 CorNouws _Nesshof_1: thanks for what you did, and for taking care to handle it over to Martin_3 
15:53:47 CorNouws louis_to: not that I am aware of.. 
15:53:53 _Nesshof_1 I still will be the stand in for martin d. 
15:54:00 louis_to please send in an update, then. 
15:54:10 louis_to and if no objections, I would like to call the meeting adjourned 
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