CJK Group Log 20090321

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* forestcheng (n=forestch@ は #ooonlc へ参加しました。
<forestcheng> Hi, Khirano San
<forestcheng> and hello to maho :)
<maho_> HI all, khirano!
<khirano> Hi Cheng Lin
<maho_> hello forestcheng
<khirano> Hi Maho
<maho_> ah - you are chengling
<forestcheng> yes, I'm Cheng Lin
<forestcheng> forestcheng is my OOo account name.
<maho_> ling = forest, right?
<forestcheng> Yes, 林 = forest, CHENG is my family name.
<maho_> We also pronounce as "lin"
* liheng (n=temp@ は #ooonlc へ参加しました。
<forestcheng> Great!
<liheng> forestcheng:Hi :)
<maho_> hi liheng
<forestcheng> Hi, Liheng is coming in. He's my colleague, lead of OOo
* kynh (n=kynh@i121-113-71-120.s42.a013.ap.plala.or.jp) は #ooonlc へ参加
<liheng> Thank you, forestcheng!
<liheng> Hi, maho_
* jeongkyu (n=chatzill@ は #ooonlc へ参加しました。
<kynh> Hi all, connected as kynh. I'm Katsuya Kobayashi, JA marketing
project member.
<maho_> Hi kobayashi-san, (kynh)
* peter13j (n=peter13j@ は #ooonlc へ参加しました。
<peter13j> Hi everyone :)
<forestcheng> Hi, Peter, Liheng and me is here.
<peter13j> Great!
<liheng> Hi, peter13j good afternoon
<peter13j> Hi Li Heng
<maho_> Hello Peter13j
<peter13j> Hi maho_
<kynh> Hi peter, I'm glad to see you all again since OOoCON2008.
<peter13j> Hi kynh
<khirano>      ? Hello in Korean :)
<jeongkyu> Hello~
<jeongkyu> You're Korean is nice :-)
<khirano> 処ン好 Hello in Chinese :)
<maho_> Hello jeongkyu
<jeongkyu> Hello Maho
<peter13j> Hi Hirano-san, thanks for pushing the OOoRegioCon :)
<maho_> khirano: how you type chinese and korean?
<khirano> こんにちは Hello in Japanese :)
<maho_> yes OOo regicon is very important
<sophi1> Hi all :)
<khirano> Hi Sophie
<khirano> Nice to have you here :)
<maho_> Hello Sophie
<maho_> thanks for attending...
<kynh> Thanks logon from fr.
<sophi1> khirano: maho_: thank you and thank you also for organizing
this meeting
<forestcheng> Good morning to France.
<sophi1> thank all you for you welcome :)
<maho_> no just khirano is organizing...
<khirano> Hi all, glad to have you all here to meet and talk.
<khirano> Can we start the meeting?
<kynh> This is 1st meeting covered 5 lang or more, is'nt it?
<maho_> maybe :(
<maho_> maybe :)
<maho_> sorry
<khirano> Can I chair this meeting?
<forestcheng> Japanese, Korean, Chinese, Franch, German.
<liheng> English ;)
* peter13j thinks khirano should chair the meeting
<kynh> Sure you are chair, pls khirano.
<maho_> khirano, yes. could you please start?
<khirano> Thanks.
<khirano> Who's taking a log of this meeting?
<maho_> ok I'll do
* aijin (n=aijin@ は #ooonlc へ参加しました。
<khirano> I "often" fail to log IRC meetings ;)  Thanks, Maho :)
<maho_> hi aijin
<khirano> Hi Aijin!
<jeongkyu> Hi Aijin
<aijin> hi all
<khirano>      ?
<maho_> annonhasimunika
<aijin> khirano, maho_ ,     !
<khirano> Log of this meeting will be published on the wiki.
<maho_> +1
<liheng> +1
<forestcheng> +1
<peter13j> +1
<sophi1> khirano: +1 and great, it will help other group
<khirano> OK, now I hope you all have read agenda :)
<maho_> sure
<khirano> 1. How to get more QA and L10N TCM testers for quick and
stable releases
<khirano> 2. Possibilities of OpenOffice.org Regional Conference in Asia
<forestcheng> yes, The same question as: How do your OOo community
call for more volunteers?  Or how about marketing? how to get more
people to know OOo?
<khirano> 3. Benefits of the group in general
<khirano> 4. More coordinators for the group
<khirano> 5. Next IRC meeting
<khirano> forestcheng: Right!
<khirano> OK, let us start with 1.
<forestcheng> How about us? My question: Though my work is related to
OOo, I can only  spent part time on OOo. How about you? are you full
time or part time? can you  get paid from OOo work?
<maho_> JA resut for 1. four testers + two managers, total five person
(one manger was tester)
<kynh> Nice viewpoint, forestcheng, It's a marketing matter.
<khirano> I am just a volunteer :)
<forestcheng> Great to Khirano!
<maho_> me too;)
<forestcheng> But Maho, it seems You've been spending much time on OOo.
<maho_> haha
<maho_> I e-mail while compiling ;)
<forestcheng> compiling OOo?
<maho_> it takes very small time, many parts are automated.
<khirano> Let me start with these questions, - How was 3.0.1 QA? How
many testers did you get?
<maho_> but - sometimes it takes very loooong time
<maho_> okay khirano
<peter13j> My question would be: Will more testers really help quick
and stable releases? ...
<khirano> forestcheng: can you tell us about zh project?
<maho_> jeongkyu : how about ko?
<maho_> Mechtilde how about de?
<forestcheng> We got about 10 testers in 3.0 and 3.1
<maho_> sophi1: how about fr?
<forestcheng> but most of testers are from our company. :(
<liheng> peter13j:Yes, I think how to finish the test is more
important for helping releases
<jeongkyu> We had 4 testers for 3.0.
<maho_> jeongkyu : thanks, are they volunteers?
<sophi1> for fr there is between 10 and 15 testers it depends of the
period, they are all volunteers
<peter13j> liheng: well,  following the mailing lists, the current
problems seem mostly be before QA
<jeongkyu> Sure, everybody in Koerean community is volunteer.
<liheng> peter13j:Okay
<khirano> jeongkyu: Thanks.  do you need more testers?
<maho_> khirano: thanks for good question
<forestcheng> as for zh, we can get near 10 volunteers, but often they
can't be available during testing period.
<sophi1> peter13j: I think the first step is to have more testers for
rc, then we will be able to attract them also for testing dev release
and have more testers earlier in the QA process
<maho_> sophi1: interesting.
<maho_> JA proejct has a very good tester, matuaki-san
<kynh> Important point, Sophie.
<maho_> he always publish his results when rc s are available.
<peter13j> sophi1: That's the problem. large testting effort starting
at rc is probably too late
<maho_> our release heavily depend on his activity
<forestcheng> yes, kynh, how about OOo marketing in Japan? it should
be helpful to more testers.
<kynh> In JA, full time few Sun mambers join with us, but they work
with  all OSS products of Sun, as G11n, do'nt you maho?.
<maho_> yes.
<maho_> so - SUN empolyees not always participate release process.
<forestcheng> it's same with Sun Beijing G11n. right? Aijin.
<aijin> actually Sun people run test OO.o build on Solaris platform.
<khirano> jeongkyu and aijin: - How was 3.1 L10N TCM? How many testers
did you get?
<maho_> JA marketing project is now preparing. khirano is the coordinator.
<sophi1> peter13j: too late for the release, but it allows to build a
group. Rc are less frightening than dev releases :)
<maho_> JA: the number of participant is about 20.
<maho_> for l10n TCM.
<peter13j> sophi1: :)
<forestcheng> Great, Can you share your marketing idea?
<maho_> I asked Naoyuki-san (sun) and write an announcement
<maho_> actually I wrote it
<maho_> announcement should contain all relevant infomation
<maho_> wait...
<maho_> slow ja.oo.o site...
<aijin> khirano, I did run test in l10n TCM, not sure if other Korean
members used TCM for testing. jeongkyu, can you confirm?
<maho_> the announement contains : object
<jeongkyu> khirano: We could not do 3.1 L10n testing through TCM this time.
<maho_> method, who can participate, period, and details.
<maho_> also - title is important.
<kynh> announcement and show prosess of testing is important,
<maho_> usually JA people want to test how well localized to Japanese
<maho_> kynh : yes
<jeongkyu> khirano: Instead, 3 testers including me had done basic
testing outside of TCM.
<kynh> In fr, de, does the testers understand the process of feedback
bug issue when RC phase testing?
<khirano> aijin and jeongkyu: Thanks! Do you think more testers will
be helpful for quick and stable releases of Korean builds?
<maho_> so the title was "to reduce the Japanese related bugs for 3.1
release, call for testers for l10n TCM"
<sophi1> kynh: yes, they report issue they meet during testing on our qa 
<forestcheng> Another problem: When build RedOffice from OOo, our
testers often find much more bugs, but many of bugs can't be solved
quickly. More developers are needed!
<kynh> sphi1: do you have any meeting as IRC in fr qa project?
<aijin> khirano, it should be, and I think it's important to get some
testers who can continueously participate.
<khirano> aijin: Right!
<maho_> ome testers who can continueously participate. : aijin : right
<liheng> foreshcheng:All software is same, but we need only decide
which bugs must be solved
<kynh> aijin: +1
<jeongkyu> khirano: Aijin said what I wanted to say. :-)
<khirano> Jeongkyu: Sure I see :)
<khirano> So we will share our experience how to get more testers and 
<forestcheng> khirano: Great! Thanks!
<khirano> please help, maho, sophie and others, ok?
<maho_> yes.
<khirano> Let us do share them on the list,
com@native-lang.openoffice.org later :)
<sophi1> on the marketing side, I think l10n testing could be directed
to trainers because they have to know about new features for their
<sophi1> khirano: ok :)
<khirano> sophi1: right!
<maho_>  trainers?
<kynh> trainer task, good point!
<forestcheng> sophi1: Yes, we've translated OOo 3.1 new feature in
Chinese and posted in zh project.
<sophi1> maho_: people who give lessons on OOo practice
<khirano> forestcheng: great!
<maho_> okay
<sophi1> forestcheng: very good idea :)
<khirano> forestcheng: we are doing the same on the wiki now :)
<maho_> forestcheng : great.
<maho_> yes :)
<forestcheng> And we're trying to get terry to help us setting up
Chinese OOo forum.
<forestcheng> Forum is better than mailinglist for training.
<forestcheng> and discussion.
<maho_> why?
<forestcheng> why to what?
<maho_> discussion. topics are not lost and shared by users?
<khirano> OK, we share our works, what good we are doing, what tools
like announce list, wiki, forum and others do we use to promote QA
testing etc, on the com@native-lang.openoffice.org
<khirano> What do you think?
<forestcheng> ++1
<sophi1> khirano: +1
<maho_> +1
<aijin> +1
<jeongkyu> +1
<liheng> +1
<peter13j> +1
<khirano> Now we move to 2. Possibilities of OpenOffice.org Regional
Conference in Asia
<kynh> +1, and Specification fixing time is late, but we need to
understand what will we need to define new test case for the new
<kynh> go ahead.
<forestcheng> +1 After OOoCon2009Orvieto
<khirano> kynh: Thanks. I got the point.
<khirano> forestcheng: OK, can you give us a reason?
* peter13j seconds forestcheng
<khirano> Peter: OK, can you give us a reason?
<peter13j> khirano: RegioCon should be not too close too OOoCon ...
<forestcheng> We need enough time to find topics in ReginalCon.
<peter13j> ... if we have it lets say in August it's not so much time
to organize it
<kynh> How is kr?
<khirano> If you say after Orvieto, it may be held around December or
2009 January or 2009 Spring?
<jeongkyu> kyhn: Are you asking about time frame?
<kynh> No, need F2F or not soon, kr.
<peter13j> khirano: I guess you mean 2010 spring?! Yes, would be a good 
<khirano> Sorry yes, 2010 Spring ;)
<peter13j> So,we could have RegioCon in spring OOoCon in autumn
<peter13j> That would be a good frequency for the future
<maho_> +1 for peter13j
<liheng> +1 for peter13j
<forestcheng> +1 for peter.
<jeongkyu> +1 for 2010 spring
<kynh> +1, and Before end of 2010 goals, I hope that it is mature each
lang project governance. So after Orvieto is better, I think.
<aijin> +1
<khirano> Spring is a good season for Asia, warm :)
<peter13j> :)
<maho_> flower powder is serious in Japan
<maho_> :)
<khirano> jeongkyu: Now can you host RegiCon Asia in 2010 Spring?
<jeongkyu> The decision for the location was already made? :-)
<khirano> Not Yet!
<khirano> You decide :)
<jeongkyu> ha ha... Let's talk about the location now.
<peter13j> jeongkyu: Would Seoul apply?
<maho_> Souel?
<maho_> Seoul
<maho_> sorry
<kynh> jeongkyu: yes, you just proposed on com@
<khirano> Jeongkyu:  Seoul sounds good!
<jeongkyu> If you don't object, then I'd like to host the conference.
* peter13j applauds :)
<jeongkyu> :-)
* sophi1 joins peter13j :)
<maho_> great
<kynh> Where is easier to join for zh mambers?
<forestcheng> both of Korea and Japan is OK
<kynh> OK, Peter will help how to hosting the meeting. :)
<khirano> OK, we will start a planning discussion "RegiCon Asia 2010
Spring in Seoul" on com@native-lang.openoffice.org, OK :)
<peter13j> +1
<aijin> +1
<jeongkyu> +1
<sophi1> khirano: +1
<kynh> khirano: +1
<peter13j> kynh: Yes.
<kynh> Thanks, peter.
<khirano> Thanks all, then we move to 3. Benefits of the group in general
<maho_> +1
<kynh> okay
<forestcheng> +1
<khirano> - What have Group helped group member projects such as zh,
ko, ja projects?
<khirano> Is the group helpful? :)
<forestcheng> Yes! CJK has many common layout and align feature.
<maho_> yes. recently we are talking about such kind of things
<liheng> +1
<aijin> we can share common issues. I know 'cjk' keyword are used in
<forestcheng> It's much better if getting developer from CJK together.
<maho_> yes I introduced this keyword
<maho_> "CJK"
<aijin> maho_: great!
<maho_> please use "cjk" keyword if you find CJK issues.
<maho_> in IssueTracker.
<khirano> maho: For Issue Tracker, right?
<maho_> yes
<khirano> Right.
<jeongkyu> (Sorry, I got to go now. I will check IRC log later and
join the discussion at mailing list.)
<maho_> thanks jeongkyu
<khirano> Sure, jeongkyu
<jeongkyu> :-)
<maho_> see you seoul
<aijin> jeongkyu: see you
<kynh> thanks jeongkyu
<khirano> Nice to have you here and thanks for RegiCon in Seoul :)
<sophi1> jeongkyu: bye !
<forestcheng> thanks and see you to Jeongkyu.
<khirano> Continues..., then - How can Group help group member
projects such as ko, zh, ja projects more?
<khirano> What do you expect more?
<maho_> I'm tracking [Issue 84405] meta issue to track issues
discovered by RedFlag2000 QA
<khirano> I do too, maho
<kynh> What is our common issues?
<maho_> Sundongmei from RedOffice e-mail us helping implement grid layout 
<maho_> via forestcheng.
<maho_> khirano do you subscribe dev@zh or dev@ko
<maho_> ?
<khirano> Yes, I do :)
<maho_> great.
<khirano> Even if I don't read Korean and Chinese :)
<kynh> I think that marketing matter for each lang refered another
lang  is important.
<maho_> kynh : for common issue, we can make use of issue tracker with
"CJK" keyword
<forestcheng> Great to Khirano, Now you've chance to learn Korean and
Chinese. :)
<maho_> "CJK" is not common currently though.
<kynh> maho: I see.
<maho_> kynh : yes.
<khirano> forestcheng: Right!  I am happy to learn them
<maho_> Sundongmei cannot read my e-mail using Kanji.
<maho_> her e-mail client doesn't support Japnese Kanji ;(
<khirano> With Group, "sharing many things like issues, experiences
etc." is important.
<maho_> do we read/write CJK characters? can we exchange e-mails ?
<forestcheng> if you use UTF-8 encoding, I think she should can.
<maho_> yes.
<sophi1> maho_: may be you should mail about CJK keyword ont the QA
and l10n list, so every body is aware and can add it to the issue
related to CJK ?
<forestcheng> it's better to use UTF-8 encoding in email for CJK.
<maho_> sophi1 " thanks
<khirano> We should utilize various tools to promote "sharing"
<maho_> forestcheng : right. even though Japanese should use
ISO-2022JP for e-mails
<maho_> sophi1: this is marketing issue :)
<sophi1> maho_: yes :)
<khirano> like issue tracker, wiki, mailing list and so on, we can use
them to share many things.
<kynh> Sophie: yes :)
<maho_> forestcheng, aijin : which encoding do you use?
<aijin> maho_: i use utf-8 , but some ko members use euc-kr
<maho_> okay.
<forestcheng> My email client can use many encoding. I often need to
set UTF-8 if CJK.
<kynh>  I think that technical matter for 2bye area is same as other
lang locations , is't it?  How do you think?
<kynh> But the standards of code is deferent in each lang by national 
<khirano> Let us talk about "encoding" another chance? :)
<maho_> yes.
<kynh> +1: khirano.
<khirano>  OK, Group is helpful :)  And we can do more to share
<khirano> I think, to do more, 4. More coordinators for the group, needed 
<forestcheng> +1 khirano
<maho_> coordinate the subproject within native lang project.
<maho_> ?
<aijin> khirano: can we define the detail role of coordinator?
<khirano> aijin: yes.
<khirano> CJK group coorinators "coordinate" :)
<khirano> Coordinate means gettng touch with member project leads,
listening to their needs
<khirano> Taking up issues and putting them on agenda, and leading 
<kynh> khirano: over?
<khirano> for example, the wiki, the IRC meeting, raising issues on
the mailing list and so on
<khirano> http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/CJK_Group
<khirano> This wiki page is not organized, not updated
<khirano> I need help, good idea and making this page more informative
and helpful for group member projects
<kynh> maho: do you mean that leagional group of NLC will make
relations with each coordination subproject in each lang prject,
<maho_> naively, right.
<khirano> A biggest task for CJK group coordinators will be Organizing
OOoRegiCon Asia 2010 Seoul :)
<maho_> right.
<khirano> - Can we have coordinators from ko and zh?
<sophi1> maho_: I think it's a good idea, it's still early because
there is only few groups and this one is the most active
<khirano> Candiates?  Nomination?
<maho_> ah - understand
<kynh> Sophie, How does the other leaginal group make relations , do you 
<maho_> sophi1 : thanks
<maho_> kynh : thanks for good question
<sophi1> kynh: I'm not sure they are active currently, but we should
ask on the list to try to make them share their experience
<khirano> forestcheng:  Can we have a coordinator form zh community
for CJK group ?
<kynh> Sorry, I have to logoff. I'll check the LOG later. Thank you so 
<maho_> kynh : thanks for participating!
<khirano> Thanks, kynh
<sophi1> kynh: bye !
<kynh> Thanks all.
<aijin> kynh: bye
<forestcheng> :) I'm thinking. Coor is important to CJK group. We'll
try find a suitable person.
* kynh は IRC から離れました ("Leaving...")
<aijin> khirano: We may need to call for volunteers in each lang team.
<khirano> aijin: right!
<maho_> khirano : who will be for JA? you? :)
<khirano> I will ask jeongkyu to call for volunteers in korean community :)
<aijin> khirano: thanks.
<khirano> forestcheng: Can you call for volunteers in zh community?
<forestcheng> yes
<khirano> Thanks!
<khirano> maho:  Can you call for volunteers in ja community? :)
<maho_> sure!
<khirano> Thanks!
<forestcheng> if no one can be found, I'll try to do such role.
<khirano> forestcheng:  Thanks!
<khirano> 5. Next IRC meeting
<forestcheng> Looking forward to next IRC :)
<maho_> me too.
<khirano> forestcheng:  Is it a good idea to have an IRC meeting in week 
<khirano> Some don't want to attend a meeting on Saturdays?
<maho_> :)
<forestcheng> Yes, i think most people can be available on weekend.
<khirano> You mean Saturdays are OK for IRC meeting?
<forestcheng> Maybe some want Sunday.
<khirano> I see
<khirano> OK, we will find best day on com@native-lang.openoffice.org then.
<aijin> +1
<forestcheng> +1 khirano
<sophi1> khirano: +1
<maho_> +1
<khirano> I will compile a minute and put it up to the wiki, and the
log of this meeting also will be uploaded
<sophi1> khirano: do you know http://www.doodle.com/ ?
<aijin> khirano: thanks!
<khirano> sophie, what is it?
* peter13j has to leave. appointment at 7
* peter13j は IRC から離れました ("Goodbye folks!")
<maho_> see you
<sophi1> khirano: it's a tool that help you to organize meeting :)
<khirano> meeting organizer or something?
<forestcheng> see you, Peter
<sophi1> khirano: yes
<khirano> Oh, yes, I will check it up
<khirano> Peter, thanks
<khirano> Any more questions?
<sophi1> khirano: not from my side, thanks a lot for the meeting, it
was great :)
<khirano> Great!  OK, we will see on com@native-lang.openoffice.org
and the next IRC meeting.
<aijin> khirano: not from me. thanks much for orgarnizing the meeting.
<forestcheng> no more question. Thank khirano very much for this IRC.
I'm glad to be here.
<khirano> Thanks, aijin!
<khirano> Thanks, forenstcheng!
<maho_> thanks, no question from me. thanks again for great IRC
<khirano> Thanks, Sophie for your attendance!
<forestcheng> Good bye to all, Have a nice weekend!
<khirano> Yes, have a nice weekend!
<maho_> I also thanks for Sophie
<maho_> khirano : please call close
<liheng> bye all
* liheng (n=temp@ は #ooonlc から離れました。
<sophi1> maho_: khirano: you're welcome, I'm very pleased :)
<khirano> The meeting is closing, thanks all

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