ReleaseStatus Minutes 2008-01-14 IRC log

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(14:57:58) ja_: hi
(14:58:27) Fridrich: hi
(15:01:23) kso [n=kso@nat/sun/x-8c5b1cf32fc16fff] hat den Raum betreten.
(15:03:28) _Nesshof_: moin
(15:03:35) Fridrich: moin, moin
(15:03:52) mdamboldt: Hi
(15:03:59) bettina-h: hi
(15:04:03) _Nesshof_: this week we are heading code freeze for 2.4
(15:04:19) _Nesshof_: there are quite a few cws and issue with target 2.4 left
(15:04:24) _Nesshof_: IMHO too much
(15:05:40) _Nesshof_: more than 200 issue left, tl and bm will retarget quite a few asap
(15:05:50) _rene_: if windows people finally would look at hunspellexternal/hyphenexternal we could save some...
(15:05:59) _Nesshof_: bettina-h: can you please take care about mmp issue with that target ?
(15:06:19) paveljanik: I'll also walk over 2.4 soon
(15:06:21) _rene_: serbianisntsrcs is a must imho, too, a sr languagepack which doesn't have an effect isn't good for release ;-)
(15:06:34) bettina-h: Yes, I will bring it into our group and we will manage it. Meeting is tomorrow.
(15:07:12) rafaella [n=Rafaella@nat/sun/x-4ccb720599032158] hat den Raum betreten.
(15:07:14) _rene_: (will be RfQA when cvs commit -m finally finishes...)
(15:07:35) Fridrich: _Nesshof_: since this looks like the last "big" release before 3.0, I would be a bit relax and try to get things in if there are real bugs fixed
(15:07:57) _Nesshof_: blauwal: rtimm do you have an idea why localisation27 is back to new ?
(15:08:05) _rene_: Fridrich: in principle, I'd agree with you, but also notice there won't be a 2.4.1.
(15:08:17) rtimm: _Nesshof_: no.
(15:08:40) _rene_: _Nesshof_: argh.
(15:08:43) _Nesshof_: rtimm: I just wanted to nominate it, now I'm wondering
(15:08:44) blauwal: _Nesshof_: no, I'll ask Vladimir
(15:08:46) rafaella: _Nesshof_, is this because of the PL integration?
(15:08:55) MechtiIde: _Nesshof_, it isn't integrated in a master build till now
(15:08:57) _Nesshof_: _rene_: argh ?
(15:09:07) blauwal: rafaella: we discussed that PL should be done in al ter CWS
(15:09:16) rtimm: _Nesshof_: Vladimir says he did so after discussing it with you ...
(15:09:29) rtimm: because of some issue(s) with pl
(15:09:32) _Nesshof_: rafaella: but holding for this a already ready cws back was not my inteenetion
(15:09:59) _Nesshof_: how long will the turnaround for loc%27 take ?
(15:10:09) rafaella: _Nesshof_, did you talk to Vladimir after we talked on the phone?
(15:10:11) _rene_: _Nesshof_: yes, one of my cwsws depends on it...
(15:10:40) _Nesshof_: _rene_ on 2.4.1 ?
(15:10:56) _rene_: on localisation27
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(15:11:15) _rene_: _Nesshof_: but yes, I still think skipping 2.4.1 is a bad idea
(15:11:29) _rene_: _Nesshof_: we at least should fix pressing things in 2.4.
(15:11:30) Fridrich: also me +1
(15:11:38) IZBot_ [n=supybot@ppp-88-217-37-104.dynamic.mnet-online.de] hat den Raum betreten.
(15:12:01) _Nesshof_: _rene_: current status is that we have not planned for 2.4.1 yet, if we need a 2.4.1 it's up to us to do that release
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(15:12:29) _Nesshof_: _rene_: but I would not like to set the expectation from the beginning that there will be a 2.4.1 for sure
(15:13:20) IZBot [n=supybot@ppp-88-217-37-104.dynamic.mnet-online.de] hat den Raum betreten.
(15:13:23) _Nesshof_: _rene_: which one depends on loc%27 ?
(15:13:50) _rene_: serbianisntsrcs (I needed to cross-merge loc%27 because I otherwiese probably would have many conflicts...)
(15:14:57) _rene_: that cws imho is needed for 2.4, because it makes the serbian language packages work properly again
(15:15:13) _Nesshof_: I would be in favor to update pl in a separate cws
(15:15:19) _Nesshof_: if really needed
(15:15:26) _Nesshof_: there are simply too late
(15:15:34) _rene_: ?
(15:16:06) _rene_: EPARSE
(15:16:06) _rene_: "update pl?"
(15:16:06) _Nesshof_: PL
(15:16:14) _Nesshof_: as rafaella wrote above (Polish)
(15:16:25) _rene_: ah, right
(15:16:28) _rene_: oversaw that, sorry
(15:17:10) ***_rene_ still thinks the serbian and pl things *should* be fixed in a cws which designation *is* localisation, but...
(15:17:22) _Nesshof_: rtimm: loc%27 is already "kaputt gespielt" ?
(15:17:22) _rene_: a seperate cws could do, too...
(15:18:17) rtimm: _Nesshof_: I do not know. Why are you asking me, It's you Vladimir contacted before setting it back to new
(15:19:12) _Nesshof_: my suggestion would be to integrate loc%27 now and put PL into serbianisntsrcs after resync
(15:19:39) _rene_: serbianisntsrcs is already RfQA
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(15:19:50) rtimm: _Nesshof_: that's what we (blauwal, me, ...) also told.
(15:20:05) blauwal: _Nesshof_: 5min ago Vladimir told me there is no Polish stuff on it yet
(15:20:51) ja_: .
(15:20:53) ChanServ [ChanServ@services.] hat den Raum betreten.
(15:20:53) IZBot [n=supybot@ppp-88-217-37-104.dynamic.mnet-online.de] hat den Raum betreten.
(15:20:53) rafaella [n=Rafaella@nat/sun/x-4ccb720599032158] hat den Raum betreten.
(15:20:53) paveljanik [n=Pavel@unaffiliated/paveljanik] hat den Raum betreten.
(15:20:53) _Nesshof_ [n=mh@sd-socks-197.staroffice.de] hat den Raum betreten.
(15:20:53) Fridrich [n=fridrich@212-39.1-85.cust.bluewin.ch] hat den Raum betreten.
(15:20:53) MechtiIde [n=Mechtild@p578b3c6a.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] hat den Raum betreten.
(15:20:53) _rene_ [n=rene@dslb-088-065-173-250.pools.arcor-ip.net] hat den Raum betreten.
(15:20:53) msc_sun__ [n=msc@nat/sun/x-8be6b151c55a92cc] hat den Raum betreten.
(15:20:53) Modus (+o ChanServ ) von irc.freenode.net
(15:20:56) _rene_: if anyone of you would do invest the time to do the resync, you can do. I won't.
(15:21:00) _rene_: caolan will start to QA it only tomorrow anyway, so if you're fast...
(15:21:04) _Nesshof_: all back now ?
(15:21:10) paveljanik: yup
(15:22:06) _Nesshof_: so I will nominate loc%27 now and will do PL in a separate cws
(15:22:42) rtimm: _Nesshof_: good
(15:22:59) rafaella: ok for me.
(15:23:04) blauwal: _Nesshof_: ok, we'll communicate it to Vladimir
(15:23:13) _Nesshof_: blauwal: thanks
(15:24:13) rafaella: _Nesshof_, question on 3.0 release map...
(15:24:22) _Nesshof_: thorstenziehm: UweL: do you have any bottlenecks in QA to get all the cws approved `?
(15:24:33) _Nesshof_: rafaella: ?
(15:24:51) rafaella: translation handoff is scheduled quite soon
(15:24:56) rafaella: is this still the plan?
(15:25:19) thorstenziehm: _Nesshof_ : which CWS, loc%27? We do not make QA on this CWS.
(15:25:54) _Nesshof_: rafaella: yes, but I will get more information from documentation team later today
(15:26:04) _Nesshof_: thorstenziehm: no all cws with target 2.4
(15:26:33) _Nesshof_: rafaella: I will give an update on releases ML tomorrow
(15:27:02) _Nesshof_: thorstenziehm: assigned to your team
(15:27:13) rafaella: _Nesshof_, ok. tomorrow at latest....
(15:27:14) thorstenziehm: _Nesshof_ : yes all QA members have too many CWSes for 2.4, it isn't possible to get them all approved until 17th.
(15:27:14) _rene_: again, I'd be *really* thankful (it fixes a license problem) when someone who knows how to build/link libs on windows would look over cws hyphenexternal... (and hunspellexternal, mostly the same)
(15:27:34) ***_rene_ knows he repeats this, but...
(15:27:36) thorstenziehm: most of the CWS are not in state 'Ready for QA', these CWS are more critical
(15:27:58) _Nesshof_: thorstenziehm: you mean the "New" ones
(15:28:11) thorstenziehm: _Nesshof_ : yes!
(15:28:34) ***ja_ is currently preparing the upload of an OOH680_m2 developer snapshot build.
(15:28:42) _Nesshof_: some of these are already cws for stoppers issues, so they are 20-25 left right now, are these all assigned to your team ?
(15:28:46) thorstenziehm: _rene_ : then you have to work with Release Engineering together, QA cannot check build issues
(15:28:50) _rene_: ja_: how can you do that if m2 is not yet ready?
(15:29:05) _rene_: thorstenziehm: I didn't talk to you directly. and *someone* needs to do that, I don't care who.
(15:29:17) _rene_: I *know* I broke Windows.
(15:29:48) _rene_: (but don't have any windows knowledge to fix it myself)
(15:31:04) _Nesshof_: rtimm: do we have any chance to help _rene_ ? _rene_ what is the problem ?
(15:31:43) thorstenziehm: _Nesshof_ : In my team are ~45 CWS, 24 are in state 'ready for QA'. But some of them are set to this state today. So we have ~25 -30CWS, which are very critical!
(15:32:00) _rene_: that someone needs to fix those cwses to build on windows *at all*. I know I broke Windows support completely. (hardcoding -lhunspell / -lhyphen)
(15:32:22) rtimm: _Nesshof_: we? Probably. Me? no.
(15:32:52) _rene_: I bet windows needs some handling to give an other option or whatever. Don't have any clue about Windows building/Windows library linking.
(15:32:57) ja_: _rene_: it's almost done and I already automated it. I'm just waiting for 'ready for CWS use' notification.
(15:33:21) _Nesshof_: _rene_: I will try to find some help
(15:34:59) _Nesshof_: thorstenziehm: ok, lets try to do some prioritizazion after this meeting for those cws
(15:35:14) thorstenziehm: _Nesshof_: OK
(15:36:01) _Nesshof_: rtimm: what about do the next OOH today, the next after next then on friday ?
(15:36:54) rtimm: OOH today? You mean because of localization27? (Otherwise would not make much sense)
(15:37:24) _Nesshof_: rtimm: yes, plus a few also coming today
(15:38:33) rtimm: _Nesshof_: We can try. Today or tomorrow, depending on how long integrations will take.
(15:39:07) _Nesshof_: rtimm: ok
(15:41:34) _Nesshof_: ok, anything else regarding 2.4 ?
(15:41:53) ja_: no
(15:41:58) _Nesshof_: any other topics ?
(15:42:08) blauwal: Yes
(15:42:47) blauwal: I've got a question by Marc Neumann: He asked if we take automated test scripts into the workspace
(15:43:24) ***_Nesshof_ don't understand the question
(15:43:34) thorstenziehm: _blauwal_ : this isn't a topic for Release Status Meeting
(15:43:38) blauwal: The scripts itself are around 16 MB, but the test data is about 140 MB, making a significant add to our already huge workspace soize
(15:43:42) thorstenziehm: I think
(15:44:06) thorstenziehm: OK; now I understood. Yes it is a topic her
(15:44:52) _Nesshof_: blauwal: into which workspaces ?
(15:45:11) _Nesshof_: blauwal: cws or mws ?
(15:45:16) blauwal: Well, checked out by "OpenOffice2" or "OpenOffice3"
(15:45:23) thorstenziehm: The TestTool scripts should be up to date with the implemented features, without this the tests will run behind new implementations.
(15:45:24) blauwal: _Nesshof_: full integrated
(15:45:45) _Nesshof_: blauwal: I would prefer en extra alias for this
(15:46:04) _rene_: yes, but please synced tag-wise to the normal one
(15:46:09) _Nesshof_: so that we have the option to checkout code only or also the autotest2
(15:46:28) _Nesshof_: s/2/
(15:46:29) _rene_: the current problem is that you don't know what you need from qa/qatestool for OOo x.y.
(15:46:48) _rene_: especially when there's bugs in the testscripts and they have been fixed there
(15:47:35) thorstenziehm: _rene_ : I do not understand?
(15:47:56) blauwal: Well, if it's to be tagged with the milestone tag and should be "cwsable" then it effective a part of the MWS
(15:48:34) _rene_: thorstenziehm: you have qa/qatestool. with other tags than the normal OOo
(15:48:59) _rene_: thorstenziehm: you do not know *exactly* which revision(s) of which files in that do work as intended with whatever OOo tag
(15:49:03) thorstenziehm: That's correct for now, as I understood
(15:49:32) ja_: _rene_: you're right. the tags used should be better communicated. For OOH680_m2 afaik head is valid
(15:49:34) blauwal: _rene_: Yes and that's the reason why Marc requested to put the stuff under RE workspace control
(15:50:06) _rene_: ja_: aha. HEAD. and then some testscript got changed. still HEAD? Is HEAD then also valid for older milestones?
(15:50:30) _rene_: ja_: if a testscript got changes for whatever fix/feature in some new milestone.
(15:50:33) thorstenziehm: The TestTool scripts have to be checked out only for a CWS, when a Automator work on changing Scripts for a new feature or where the handling of a feature is changed.
(15:50:56) _rene_: ja_: what we need ia a *exact* mapping between those two
(15:51:11) thorstenziehm: On the other hand, all script changes have to be added to a normal CWS
(15:51:37) ja_: _rene_: what we need is a documentation about the mapping of release tags
(15:51:57) _rene_: thorstenziehm: I never have seen qa/qatestool in *any* cws
(15:52:13) thorstenziehm: _rene_: not now!
(15:52:36) blauwal: _rene_: currently it's done independently and that's the problem with the current setup
(15:53:09) _rene_: exactly
(15:53:23) _rene_: that's exactly one of my points :)
(15:53:24) blauwal: _rene_: If it were only the 16 MB scripts I would simply say let's version them with the rest of workspace by RE.
(15:53:39) blauwal: _rene_: But the scripts make only sense together with the documents
(15:53:52) blauwal: _rene_: and the documents add 140 MB.
(15:54:01) blauwal: _rene_: Binary data, of course
(15:54:31) _Nesshof_: blauwal: you can add it to Hamburg RE workspace to ensure consistent tagging and cws handling
(15:54:45) _Nesshof_: blauwal: on OOo lets use an extra alias
(15:54:49) blauwal: _rene_: so a lot of stuff which would logically belong to a milestone, that why ask about it here
(15:55:50) _rene_: blauwal: yeah. I don't mind either way, I just know we need some mapping. If integrating all this into the "normal" tree and tagging it like normal is OK for you...
(15:55:53) blauwal: _Nesshof_: That's OK for CVS but if we ever go distrbuted SCM I wouldn't like it
(15:56:20) _Nesshof_: blauwal: put it into a separated repository
(15:56:33) _rene_: otoh, I also see the size argument as a valid point.
(15:56:56) _rene_: if you have two repos both tages with let's say OOH680_m2 that'd be ok too for telling what belongs to what
(15:56:57) blauwal: _rene_: Yeah. Work with two, three ... 20 repositories?
(15:57:48) ja_: _Nesshof_: +1
(15:57:49) _Nesshof_: blauwal: yes, why not ?
(15:58:11) blauwal: _Nesshof_: Nearly impossible to get right. Synchronizing tags etc
(15:58:37) blauwal: _Nesshof_: Oh and CWSs would have to deal with that, too.
(15:58:45) _Nesshof_: blauwal: why is that impossible to get that right
(15:58:46) _Nesshof_: ?
(15:58:56) _Nesshof_: looks like a scripting issue ...
(15:59:18) blauwal: _Nesshof_: It's a lot more than just scripting issues
(15:59:29) _Nesshof_: blauwal: please explain
(16:00:07) blauwal: _Nesshof_: you can't move stuff between repositories, you need different URL's for different repostories and so on
(16:00:50) _Nesshof_: I wouldnet expect much mocement between OOo code and automated test script and data
(16:01:19) _Nesshof_: blauwal: the same would apply for helpcontent and extras as well
(16:01:26) blauwal: _Nesshof_: that's just one point.
(16:01:47) blauwal: _Nesshof_: right, and maybe binutils, too?
(16:01:50) _Nesshof_: have different URL for different repositories seems not be that big prblem
(16:01:57) blauwal: _Nesshof_: Now we are at 5 repostories
(16:02:03) _Nesshof_: blauwal: no I didn't talk about binutils
(16:02:55) _Nesshof_: maybe we should set this topic on the agenda for next weeks meeting
(16:03:02) blauwal: _Nesshof_: It all boils down to size. We take here 150MB or so extra stuff that needs to be additionally handled.
(16:03:34) ***_Nesshof_ and thorstenziehm needs to discuss about the priorization for his team now
(16:03:50) _Nesshof_: blauwal: yes, but what is the alternative ?
(16:04:08) _Nesshof_: blauwal: please lets continue this topic next week
(16:04:21) blauwal: _Nesshof_: I don't know, that's why I put it up for discussion
(16:04:56) _Nesshof_: blauwal: agreed, it quite important to talk about it here
(16:05:03) _Nesshof_: ok, close for today
(16:05:05) _Nesshof_: by
(16:05:14) blauwal hat den Raum verlassen ("Leaving").
(16:05:22) paveljanik: bye

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