Log Mac Meeting 23 March 2007

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[20:59] plipli: anyone here for the meeting ?

[21:00] shaunmcdonald: yes

[21:00] paveljanik: yes

[21:00] plipli: ahhh

[21:00] plipli: better

[21:01] shaunmcdonald: the agenda is available at http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/MacOSXPortMeetings#Next_Meeting

[21:01] tinor: I'm here as well

[21:01] shaunmcdonald: 1. Welcome new devs (if any)

[21:01] shaunmcdonald: Who is TheoCryst ?

[21:01] • shaunmcdonald doesn't recognise the nick

[21:02] ericb2: • ericb2 is here too

[21:03] shaunmcdonald: • shaunmcdonald shall we move on to item 2 since TheoCryst is probably at work?

[21:03] shaunmcdonald: 2. Latest Aqua news

[21:04] TheoCryst: I'm here, sorry

[21:05] TheoCryst: but im mostly observing

[21:05] shaunmcdonald: hello TheoCryst

[21:05] TheoCryst: hello all

[21:05] delliott left the chat room.

[21:05] shaunmcdonald: TheoCryst: What is your background?

[21:06] TheoCryst: im a college student in the USA, studying computer engineering and computer science

[21:07] TheoCryst: im actually working on a proposal for the Google SoC and the OOo mac port

[21:09] TheoCryst: i've done some open-source work, but never anything on the scale of openoffice, so I'm very excited by the possibility of working with you guys this summer

[21:09] damiend joined the chat room.

[21:09] damiend: ih

[21:10] shaunmcdonald: TheoCryst: that's great; I'm a final year university student studying Computer Science in Scotland

[21:10] paveljanik: TheoCryst: welcome!

[21:10] shaunmcdonald: hello damiend, you haven't missed much, TheoCryst was just introducing himself

[21:10] TheoCryst: shaunmcdonald: cool cool, but I'm still only second year

[21:10] damiend: ok

[21:10] damiend: hello TheoCryst

[21:10] TheoCryst: hi damiend

[21:11] shaunmcdonald: TheoCryst: is that another 2 years to go (after the current year)?

[21:11] TheoCryst: shaunmcdonald: yes sir

[21:11] TheoCryst: shaunmcdonald: but if it counts for anything, I'm in two third-year classes already

[21:11] shaunmcdonald: TheoCryst: that's the same number of years as me

[21:12] shaunmcdonald: TheoCryst: Hopefully it all works well for you

[21:12] shaunmcdonald: 2. Latest Aqua news

[21:12] ericb2: as summary for the last week, I propose to have a look at : http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/User:Ericb#Changelog

[21:13] ericb2: version numbers are arbitrary choosen

[21:14] damiend: how about draw alpha rect ?

[21:14] damiend: (i'm looking at your changelog ericb2

[21:14] damiend: )

[21:14] ericb2: damiend: did I forgot something ?

[21:14] damiend: (woups no)

[21:14] damiend: (i didn't read well)

[21:14] damiend: (exuse )

[21:15] ericb2: damiend: no problem

[21:15] ericb2: other news since ?

[21:15] damiend: ericb2: news ? ??

[21:16] ericb2: damiend: Aqua news. last patch, last try ..etc

[21:16] ericb2: plipli: ?

[21:16] plipli: yes

[21:16] plipli: My worl on window and control events progress well

[21:16] plipli: work

[21:17] damiend: ismael doesn't seems to be here

[21:17] damiend: but he have done some good works on windowing

[21:17] plipli: ericb2 works on hiview controls and i work on the event part

[21:18] damiend: he successed in "sheet" messages

[21:18] damiend: when a message is already opened as sheet

[21:18] damiend: the second one (as in the printing box)

[21:18] damiend: will open onto a separate message box

[21:18] damiend: (no visible with Exposé)

[21:19] damiend: he used Textedit standards

[21:19] damiend: in my advice, it's very good work

[21:19] damiend: really Apple Look & Feel ...

[21:19] ericb2: damiend: good

[21:20] ericb2: is somebody working for obsolete code replacement in saltimer.cxx ?

[21:20] ericb2: tired to see zillions of warnings, I started this afternoon, waiting for plipli last-steps

[21:20] paveljanik: #i75228#

[21:20] mikesic: I have been looking at the tooltip crashes - which may be related

[21:20] damiend: to all : phne, i've to go for 10 minutes

[21:20] IZBot: porting PATCH STARTED aquavcl01: WaE for vcl/aqua/source/app/saltimer.cxx http://qa.openoffice.org/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=75228

[21:20] damiend: *phone

[21:21] ericb2: paveljanik: ok, thnks. I'll stop

[21:21] mikesic: if no one is working on saltimer.cxx - I could start _

[21:21] paveljanik: mikesic: you can continue

[21:21] • paveljanik is a bit busy these days

[21:21] ericb2: paveljanik: what is missing ?

[21:21] paveljanik: ericb2: please read the issue.

[21:22] ericb2: paveljanik: I was reading the patch

[21:22] ericb2: paveljanik: ok

[21:22] tinor: paveljanik, mikesic: I talked to Stephan Schaefer this week regarding the time rewrite from Pavel (among other things)...

[21:23] ericb2: tinor: and ?

[21:24] tinor: ...and and he remembered that there where some problems with the implementation approach taken by Pavel now that he couldn't solve at the time when he introduced the current code

[21:24] tinor: ericb2: Cannot type so fast

[21:24] tinor: paveljanik, mikesic: Just as a heads-up, because as Pavel reported there are still some crashes with the new timer

[21:25] ericb2: paveljanik: I had problems with userData

[21:25] paveljanik: BTW - I only did naive rewrite after reading the Apple docs...

[21:25] tinor: paveljanik, mikesic: maybe one of you ask Stephan directly again (maybe he can remember some details meanwhile)

[21:25] mikesic: sure - thanks

[21:26] tinor: mikesic: welcome

[21:26] ericb2: paveljanik: I dtook the same way using InstallEventLoopTimer RemoveEventLoopTimer

[21:27] damiend: all : re

[21:27] paveljanik: ericb2: pardon?

[21:28] ericb2: paveljanik: I said, I didn't know (remember) the work you did, and I have worked all the afternoon on saltimer.cxx code cleanup , using a similar solution like the one you used.

[21:29] plipli: test

[21:29] ericb2: plipli: successful

[21:29] paveljanik: ericb2: you are in CC:...

[21:29] plipli: • plipli has protected refreshrect agaunst bad mrView ref

[21:29] ericb2: paveljanik: I simply forgot

[21:30] paveljanik: ericb2: and does it work better than the patch i atteched 15 days ago?

[21:30] paveljanik: I haven't had time to continue the work.

[21:30] ericb2: paveljanik: no, I still have work

[21:30] plipli: • plipli is relooking salframe to manage window event and hiview control events, using as more as possible of apple sampel code

[21:30] tinor: paveljanik: Why do we need the timer rewrite now at all?

[21:30] ericb2: paveljanik: but mikesic proposed to work, so I'll give up

[21:31] ericb2: tinor: obsolete code can cause strange issues

[21:31] tinor: ericb2: Its not obsolete code, its actually very necessary code

[21:31] tinor: ericb2: It might have bugs in it though

[21:31] ericb2: tinor: it can be replaced

[21:32] ericb2: tinor: 0 value can now be used with 10.4 inInstallEventLoopTimer

[21:32] tinor: ericb2: The question is does it have to be replaced now - or do we have maybe better thing to do?

[21:32] plipli: • plipli will need other control to be "hiview created " in draw native control, in order to ensure alle events are well managed

[21:32] ericb2: tinor: I think this is sane to be warning free

[21:32] paveljanik: tinor: it can surely wait.

[21:33] plipli: what is the purpose of saltime events ?

[21:33] tinor: ericb2: Yes warning free is a laudable desire but of limited value to the end users

[21:33] plipli: thorw events ?

[21:33] plipli: rhrow events ?

[21:33] ericb2: tinor: I don't understand

[21:33] plipli: throw events ?

[21:34] plipli: ericb2: warning are at compilation only

[21:34] plipli: ericb2: not visible by users

[21:34] mikesic: I think it relates to tooltips disappearing - that's why I am interested since I am trying to find the tooltip bug.

[21:34] ericb2: • ericb2 insists : warnings are not sane, and less we have, more it is

[21:34] tinor: ericb2: Does need to be discussed now I think. I don't mind if somebody wants to work on the timer rewrite. Maybe its a good starting point for somebody.

[21:35] paveljanik: mikesic: this is the reason I investigated it as well ?=0

[21:35] tinor: #Does#Doesn't#

[21:36] ericb2: • ericb2 noticed mikesic will continue

[21:36] mikesic: yes

[21:36] ericb2: other Aqua news ?

[21:37] tinor: ericb2: Removing warnings in the course of changing something that need to be changed in order to come to aquavcl01 alpha state is good, but just removing warnings in code that otherwise would necessarily to be touched now doesn't make sense!

[21:38] ericb2: tinor: I'm pretty sure this code can be replaced with recent one

[21:38] tinor: should read: ...wouldn't necessarily need to be touched

[21:38] shaunmcdonald: In my experience of C, getting rid of warnings in C code sometimes means that the program actually works as expected, rather than giving something like a segmentation fault

[21:39] tinor: shaunmcdonald: Sure but that's not my point

[21:39] shaunmcdonald: tinor:

[21:39] ericb2: tinor: I don't understand : nobody cares .. and since we try to see waht happens ..

[21:40] tinor: shaunmcdonald: I just want to say to we need to be focused on getting an alpha version out

[21:40] ericb2: tinor: again, this code is deprecated, and will probably not work with 10.5

[21:40] shaunmcdonald: tinor: +1 there are lots of requests for ooo aqua

[21:41] tinor: shaunmcdonald: We have limited resources and need to leverage them as good as we can

[21:41] tinor: ericb2: Eric replace this code if it makes you happy

[21:41] damiend: tinor: shaunmcdonald : yes but leopard will be a big publicity for the young OOO aqua

[21:41] plipli: ericb2: tinor: we don t need totake time discussing priorityof timer code refresh

[21:41] damiend: plipli: +1

[21:41] ericb2: tinor: paveljanik started, and mikesic proposed to work on it. I don't see any problem

[21:42] plipli: ericb2: tinor: no "polemique", if a dev is ready to work on it and to solve tooltipe in this way, no problem for me

[21:42] tinor: ericb2: Me not either go ahead, its a waste of time continueing this discussion

[21:43] ericb2: Next point ?

[21:43] shaunmcdonald: • shaunmcdonald notes that the second most common search result to land on his blog was "openoffice aqua", "open office aqua" and "openoffice aqua" were very close behind

[21:43] plipli: so no problem for nobody

[21:43] shaunmcdonald: 3. Top 10 Status

[21:44] mikesic: I am looking at 74392 - tooltip crash

[21:45] mikesic: so far no progress

[21:45] plipli left the chat room.

[21:45] plipli joined the chat room.

[21:45] mikesic: but lots of time - it will fall eventually ...

[21:45] ericb2: mikesic: and this issue is one of the first people will see

[21:46] tinor: I've no direct progess on the VCL debug crash but as said last time I think its a memory corruption steming maybe from the corner of the native font code

[21:46] tinor: Which is why I proposed to work on the font code

[21:46] tinor: and I started this work already

[21:46] tinor: expect some bigger changes in that area in the next time from me

[21:47] tinor: It would be nice if nobody else touches the font area in the next time or coordinates with me in advance please

[21:47] tinor: any objections?

[21:48] damiend left the chat room.

[21:48] paveljanik: no

[21:48] tinor: I talked to Herbert the OOo font expert this week already about some changes I'm intending to do in the font area

[21:49] plipli: tinor: no problem

[21:49] damiend joined the chat room.

[21:49] damiend: re

[21:49] ericb2: tinor: don't forget to document

[21:49] damiend: freebox deconnection...

[21:49] plipli: tinor: I ve worked on salatslayout, but did not touched that since a while

[21:49] plipli: tinor: it should not affect fonts except if you have layout or position problem

[21:49] tinor: ericb2: Of course I always document or try to write self-explaining code

[21:50] paveljanik: plipli: refresh is much more interesting

[21:50] paveljanik: tinor:

[21:50] ericb2: tinor: the "bus factor" .. very important

[21:50] paveljanik: int i; // This is integer variable named `i'

[21:50] plipli: tinor: paveljanik yes salatslayout does not need fixing for the moment

[21:50] tinor: plipli: sallayout does not yet affect me I think

[21:51] plipli: ok

[21:51] tinor: ericb2: bus factor?

[21:51] plipli: • plipli need people to give hime all the refresh problem they see

[21:51] plipli: in order to see if they are solved with new code

[21:51] tinor: paveljanik:

[21:52] ericb2: tinor: imagine a developer working alone on an important part of your software. I ever a bus hit him, your toast

[21:52] ericb2: s/your/you are/

[21:52] tinor: ericb2: Ok, I see

[21:52] tinor: ericb2: At least I have a good live insurance ,)

[21:52] tinor:

[21:53] paveljanik: tinor: good, we will use it for paying another developer to document it

[21:53] tinor: ericb2: So my wife and my children are safe

[21:53] paveljanik: ah, yes

[21:53] tinor: ericb2: And yours will be that I document what I do

[21:54] ericb2: what is the problem with document what we do ? just ask people discovering the Mac port ..

[21:54] tinor: ericb2: No problem, I agree with you

[21:54] tinor: ericb2: And you know what even I suffer from missing documentation of the OOo code

[21:55] ericb2: AquaBuild page has been visited more than 17500 times

[21:55] ericb2: ... just an example

[21:56] tinor: So far from my side it will still take a couple of days (but not too long I hope) before the first results of my work are ready for review

[21:57] tinor: I have to wrap up now. CU you tomorrow lads!

[21:57] ericb2: tinor: see you

[21:57] shaunmcdonald: ericb2: according to http://stats.openoffice.org/wusage/20070217.html the mac download page is a number 29 of all ooo pages

[21:57] tinor left the chat room. ("See you later")

[21:58] shaunmcdonald: ericb2: with 27,441 visits in 1 week

[21:58] plipli: wow !

[21:58] shaunmcdonald: plipli: yep, we are rather popular

[21:59] ericb2: I think we didn't progress too much with Top 10 Ok for next point ?

[21:59] ericb2: 4. Patches to be integrated

[21:59] shaunmcdonald: the next mac page is at 41, which is the X11 download page at 20,725 hits

[22:00] ericb2: the first patch I have in mind is the one mikesic provided

[22:00] ericb2: see : http://porting.openoffice.org/servlets/ReadMsg?list=mac&msgNo=5005

[22:00] ericb2: and the patch : http://www.mikesicotte.com/patch/salgdi_invert.cxx.diff

[22:00] plipli: • plipli will have to go to sleep, any question before I close my eyes ?

[22:01] ericb2: ooops sorry

[22:01] shaunmcdonald: plipli: our RSS feed is at number 15 of the additional items at 9,411 hits in a week

[22:01] ericb2: http://www.mikesicotte.com/bblog/2007/03/20/invert-and-drawalpharect-

[22:01] ericb2: with-trackframe/

[22:01] ericb2: who tested it ?

[22:02] plipli: all : let me know by mail if you have question on what I m coding..

[22:02] shaunmcdonald: ericb2: got 5,394 hits in a week, people are still looking at it

[22:02] ericb2: shaunmcdonald: sure

[22:02] plipli: • plipli will read the log tomorrow

[22:02] plipli: godd night all

[22:02] damiend: mikesicoote patch seems to be ok

[22:02] shaunmcdonald: plipli: good night

[22:02] damiend: plipli: 'd night!

[22:02] ericb2: for me too

[22:02] ericb2: plipli: salut

[22:02] plipli: • plipli vpte +1 for timeline proposed

[22:02] plipli left the chat room.

[22:03] ericb2: I propose to commit this patch

[22:03] ericb2: ok ?

[22:03] paveljanik: sure

[22:03] mikesic: I only have one comment myself - I think it should only print to stderr if there is an error when its committed.

[22:04] ericb2: paveljanik: will you commit it please?

[22:04] paveljanik: ericb2: yes, I can.

[22:04] ericb2: paveljanik: thank you

[22:04] paveljanik: will do it tomorrow.

[22:04] ericb2: other patch ?

[22:05] paveljanik: mikesic: if you have any updates, please send it to me via mail.

[22:05] mikesic: I will remove the fprintf and send it -

[22:06] ericb2: Next point ?

[22:06] ericb2: 5. Update http://porting.openoffice.org/mac/timeline.html

[22:07] shaunmcdonald: http://eric.bachard.free.fr/mac/Porting_Organisation/Timeline/timeline_2007_macport.rtf are the changes proposed by ericb2

[22:09] ericb2: I proposed that regarding the previous changelog I did, using the mail archives ( http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/User:Ericb#Changelog )

[22:10] ericb2: the point is to modify what is not correct (including maybe dates), and update the web page on porting/mac site

[22:10] shaunmcdonald: the current time line needs future events which are in ericb2 's proposal

[22:11] ericb2: comments ?

[22:11] shaunmcdonald: ericb2: I'd like to split the past and future events

[22:12] mikesic: what is "maake java work" ?

[22:12] mikesic: s/maake/make/

[22:12] ericb2: mikesic: java has always problems

[22:12] shaunmcdonald: mikesic: do the wizards work?

[22:12] shaunmcdonald: in aqua

[22:13] ericb2: shaunmcdonald: they do here

[22:13] • ericb2 tries again

[22:13] shaunmcdonald: ericb2: so java already works

[22:13] mikesic: shaunmcdonald; the only one I've tried is the startup - not aqua but seems to work.

[22:13] ericb2: shaunmcdonald: since libsalsystools.dylib is IMHO

[22:14] shaunmcdonald: applets were disabled within ooo due to security, so no need to test there

[22:14] shaunmcdonald: what about base?

[22:14] ericb2: shaunmcdonald: starts, and displays everything, but I'm not specialist

[22:15] shaunmcdonald: ericb2: then we don't need to worry about Java until later as it seems to be working

[22:15] ericb2: shaunmcdonald: maybe we could try the Player

[22:15] ericb2: shaunmcdonald: it does use Java too ( avmedia is concerned)

[22:15] mikesic: great -

[22:15] shaunmcdonald: ericb2: good point

[22:16] ericb2: shaunmcdonald: and base seems to be fast here

[22:16] shaunmcdonald: ericb2: though I thought were going to use quittime

[22:16] shaunmcdonald: ericb2: brill

[22:16] • shaunmcdonald thinks ooo under aqua will be fast and will blow away the competitors

[22:17] ericb2: other questions about the timeline ?

[22:17] mikesic: I like your proposal - it seems good to me.

[22:18] shaunmcdonald: ericb2: Can we mark off the items that are complete, so that we can show what has been done so far?

[22:18] shaunmcdonald: and make clearer what is still to do

[22:19] mikesic: shaunmcdonald: good if its kept up to date

[22:19] ericb2: shaunmcdonald: off or add "done " or something ? if you consider this as important, why not. but put all is informative too

[22:20] shaunmcdonald: ericb2: so you want the past events too there, rather than on the wiki page for the history of the port?

[22:20] ericb2: shaunmcdonald: at least the one concerning 2007, or maybe change the color ?

[22:21] shaunmcdonald: ericb2: turn it green to show it is done

[22:21] paveljanik: good night

[22:21] ericb2: shaunmcdonald: for example

[22:21] ericb2: paveljanik: good night

[22:21] shaunmcdonald: paveljanik: night

[22:22] damiend: all : good night

[22:22] ericb2: Next point ?

[22:22] damiend: all : i've to sleep a lot

[22:22] damiend: 'd bye

[22:22] damiend left the chat room.

[22:22] shaunmcdonald: 6. User request : provide a migration tool as suggested in [issue 75637]

[22:22] shaunmcdonald: ]

[22:23] shaunmcdonald: issue 75637

[22:23] IZBot: porting DEFECT UNCONFIRMED During installation (first launch) of OOo 2.1, the existing settings of OOo 2.0 are not migrated http://qa.openoffice.org/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=75637

[22:23] ericb2: as you can read, this is an interesting user request

[22:23] shaunmcdonald: ericb2: as far as I can see, it is a conflict between devs and users

[22:24] ericb2: please ignore Mox comment

[22:24] ericb2: the idea I have is build a simple .pkg with a correct script inside

[22:25] ericb2: something easy to use for the user, and easy to write for us

[22:25] shaunmcdonald: ericb2: but that can't be done for the next release

[22:25] ericb2: shaunmcdonald: this could be done separately

[22:25] shaunmcdonald: ericb2: nor does it work for all users on a specific machine

[22:25] shaunmcdonald: ericb2: it only works on one user

[22:25] ericb2: shaunmcdonald: as a tool

[22:25] shaunmcdonald: ericb2: it would be better to use a more simple Apple Script

[22:26] ericb2: shaunmcdonald: this is the same ( from user point of view )

[22:26] ericb2: shaunmcdonald: good idea too

[22:26] ericb2: shaunmcdonald: both are 5 min of work

[22:27] shaunmcdonald: ericb2: I personally don't like the .pkg, which is probably more work, and is aimed at installing new files

[22:27] ericb2: shaunmcdonald: Applescript is a good idea too

[22:27] shaunmcdonald: ericb2: shell script is another option, but not so good for ordinary users

[22:28] ericb2: shaunmcdonald: that's the reason why I wan't to hide it in a .pkg

[22:28] shaunmcdonald: ericb2: I think the best method is a AppleScript inside a dmg

[22:28] ericb2: shaunmcdonald: in a.pkg, you can have several scripts: pre/post install and pre/post fly

[22:28] ericb2: shaunmcdonald: lol

[22:29] ericb2: who is interested to provide a tool ?

[22:29] shaunmcdonald: ericb2: you can hide shellscript in Applescript

[22:29] ericb2: or better : create the missing cws ?

[22:29] shaunmcdonald: I could look into it, since it is fairly simple

[22:30] shaunmcdonald: ericb2: when are we moving to ~/Library/Application Support/OpenOffice.org/2/ ?

[22:30] ericb2: shaunmcdonald: for coming 2.2, no ?

[22:31] shaunmcdonald: ericb2: I thought it has missed 2.2

[22:31] ericb2: shaunmcdonald: arghh ..

[22:31] shaunmcdonald: • shaunmcdonald hopes he is using the latest rc3

[22:31] ericb2: shaunmcdonald: so the most early is the best

[22:32] mikesic left the chat room.

[22:33] ericb2: shaunmcdonald: I see you are on CC of this issue, so if you want to take over this change, felle free to reassign the issue for you

[22:33] ericb2: s/felle/feel/

[22:34] shaunmcdonald: ericb2: I think the most important thing is to come up with the best algorithm

[22:35] ericb2: shaunmcdonald: you have time

[22:35] shaunmcdonald: ericb2: are you sure ?

[22:36] • shaunmcdonald has been meaning to do an FAQ on this for a while

[22:36] shaunmcdonald: ericb2: I should have more time than in the past few weeks

[22:36] ericb2: shaunmcdonald: ok, do what you can.

[22:36] ericb2: Next point ?

[22:37] shaunmcdonald: ?. ... (Please complete me) ...

[22:37] shaunmcdonald: ..

[22:37] shaunmcdonald: . Date of Next Meeting

[22:37] ericb2: I will : the Google Summer of Code is on , or close

[22:38] shaunmcdonald: ericb2: the applications close in the next week or two

[22:38] ericb2: Florian and me proposed 3 subjects

[22:38] TheoCryst: shaunmcdonald: Monday they close

[22:38] shaunmcdonald: http://code.google.com/support/bin/answer.py?answer=60325&query=deadline&topic=&type=

[22:38] shaunmcdonald: TheoCryst: they don't give much time

[22:38] ericb2: shaunmcdonald: as usual

[22:38] TheoCryst: shaunmcdonald: originally it was due Friday

[22:39] ericb2: shit was less last year

[22:39] TheoCryst: *today

[22:39] shaunmcdonald: http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Summer_of_Code_2007

[22:39] • shaunmcdonald has seen some interesting ideas

[22:40] ericb2: I just want to add: this is not sure at all we will have one project ( two would be extremely difficult)

[22:41] ericb2: Last year, I was a bit lucky to see our proposed subject selected.

[22:42] TheoCryst: what was the project last year

[22:42] TheoCryst: ?

[22:42] shaunmcdonald: ericb2: people are interested in the mac port of ooo, which is why we get the support

[22:42] ericb2: it was the begining. Build, document, understand and start with salframe

[22:43] TheoCryst: ah

[22:43] ericb2: shaunmcdonald: have more than one project selected is quite difficult : other OpenOffice.org projects are interesting too, and we must share : e.g. 25 proposed subjects, 6 Google SoC only

[22:44] ericb2: TheoCryst: this year, the objective are clearly defined, and precise

[22:44] shaunmcdonald: ericb2: we might be lucky again

[22:44] shaunmcdonald: ericb2: I presume it wasn't us who put in the Apple Keynote import one

[22:44] ericb2: shaunmcdonald: it wasn't ..

[22:45] shaunmcdonald: ericb2: I presume that someone has been getting some requests for it, and it has been on the todo list for a while

[22:45] ericb2: shaunmcdonald: the problem is, pre-selected mentors vote. If only two mentors from Mac port vote, and ten form writer or so, you can imagine the result ...

[22:46] ericb2: shaunmcdonald: I don't understand why Pavel or Tino or Oliver didn't propose something

[22:46] ericb2: shaunmcdonald: be 3 or 4 would have been better

[22:47] shaunmcdonald: ericb2: it is better to have a few very good ones, than to have lost of very poor items

[22:47] ericb2: shaunmcdonald: sure

[22:47] TheoCryst: agreed

[22:48] ericb2: BTW, what do you think about the proposed subjects ?

[22:49] ericb2: do they match with what we need ?

[22:49] shaunmcdonald: • shaunmcdonald likes the cellphone one

[22:49] ericb2: • ericb2 looks

[22:49] shaunmcdonald: • shaunmcdonald thinks he would maybe be able to manage that one

[22:50] • shaunmcdonald has done some Java mobile programming before

[22:51] shaunmcdonald: ericb2: if there was one of the mac one that I would do, it would be the address book one

[22:52] ericb2: Next meeting is scheduled for Friday 30th March 2007 21:00 UTC, 22:00 CET (Paris or Hamburg time), 06:00 (Japan)

[22:52] ericb2: ok ?

[22:53] shaunmcdonald: ericb2: maybe it is too late for some people?

[22:53] ericb2: shaunmcdonald: for who ?

[22:53] shaunmcdonald: ericb2: all the people who went to bed half way through the meeting

[22:54] ericb2: shaunmcdonald: they have the same hour than me : 23:53 now

[22:54] ericb2: shaunmcdonald: I'm always here ..

[22:54] shaunmcdonald: ericb2: Just a thought to maybe start half an hour earlier?

[22:55] ericb2: shaunmcdonald: we tested, and people not here are always the same

[22:55] ericb2: shaunmcdonald: more early is more early for american people too , and japanese are sleeping

[22:56] TheoCryst: right, out in the US west coast it's only 4pm now

[22:56] shaunmcdonald: ericb2: ok, it was just a though to get the EU folk to be able to stay here for longer

[22:56] TheoCryst: the meeting started at 2

[22:56] ericb2: shaunmcdonald: where there is a will, there is a way ..

[22:56] shaunmcdonald: TheoCryst: and most people are still at work over there, which is why jamesmckenzie usually cannot attend

[22:57] TheoCryst: shaunmcdonald: exactly, i had class from 1 to 2, hence my late introduction

[22:57] ericb2: Meeting is now finished.

[22:57] ericb2: shaunmcdonald: can you please put the log on the wiki ?

[22:57] shaunmcdonald: ericb2: lets just go for the same time as this week

[22:57] shaunmcdonald: ericb2: ok

[22:57] ericb2: shaunmcdonald: thanks !

[22:58] ericb2: shaunmcdonald: I don't know why, but I have not the begining in the window.

[22:58] ericb2: other questions ?

[22:58] ericb2: good night all