Difference between revisions of "Log content"

From Apache OpenOffice Wiki
Jump to: navigation, search
 
 
(7 intermediate revisions by one other user not shown)
Line 1: Line 1:
−
[20:44] cbrunet joined the chat room.
+
Return to main page : [[MacOSXPortMeetings]]
  
−
[21:05] ChristianL:the meeting is in 2 hours, correct?
+
Return to Previous meetings page : [[Previous_Mac_Meeting_logs]]
  
−
[21:05] ChristianL:oh 1 ok
+
Return to August 2006 : [[August_2006]]
  
−
[21:05] paveljanik: what have you expected? ;-)
 
  
−
[21:05] shaunmcdonald:ChristianL: 1 hour I thought
 
  
−
[21:06] ChristianL:a creative bunch of nice teamwork oriented people with ambigion :)
+
Aug 25 22:41:18 paveljanik ;-)
  
−
[21:06] ChristianL:I was right with ambigion
+
Aug 25 23:00:46 paveljanik 23:00...
  
−
[21:06] paveljanik:ambigion?
+
Aug 25 23:02:16 paveljanik ericb2: ping
  
−
[21:07] ChristianL:ambition
+
Aug 25 23:02:26 paveljanik can we start the meeting now?
  
−
[21:07] paveljanik:and the status as you see it now?
+
Aug 25 23:02:33 ericb2 hi all :-)
  
−
[21:08] paveljanik:what do you think?
+
Aug 25 23:02:41 ericb2 paveljanik: yes
  
−
[21:10] paveljanik:I think the main problem is missing technical leadership, vision...
+
Aug 25 23:03:29 ericb2 Let's go with the news
  
−
[21:10] paveljanik:I thought that ssa will be the leader, but he does not have time to do so.
+
Aug 25 23:04:46 ericb2 is Shaun around ?
  
−
[21:12] ChristianL:as I wrote in my mail, I think going further with the current mac port is good to gain a bigger mac userbase and also to gain expirience
+
Aug 25 23:05:34 ericb2 apparently, his ssh key is ok, and Shaun can now help us for the website
  
−
[21:12] paveljanik:it is hard to create team when there is no clear goal, common vision...
+
Aug 25 23:05:47 ericb2 new devs ?
  
−
[21:12] ChristianL:finding a solution for the missing toolkit vision is also a known problem inside sun, and beleave me I'm not the only one that try to drive it. but it takes time
+
Aug 25 23:06:33 * ChristianL has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  
−
[21:13] paveljanik:yes, but this is like finding solution for world peace...
+
Aug 25 23:06:43 ericb2 The first point I want to discuss is aout last meeting
  
−
[21:13] ChristianL:but we already move int that direction. Canvas is one thing, supporting cairo another. Currently we also invest some development to improve the awt api implementation (no jave, just awt api with vcl)
+
Aug 25 23:07:52 ericb2 Christian is really gone ?
  
−
[21:14] paveljanik:we should first finish our goal and then we can speculate about future work...
+
Aug 25 23:07:53 ericb2 :)
  
−
[21:14] ChristianL:so we need someone that says "enough discussion, its vcl mac port first!" ? :)
+
Aug 25 23:08:22 * paveljanik suspect his invaders have eaten all his memory ;-)
  
−
[21:14] paveljanik:just do not take opinions from peope lwithout single line of code behind them too seriously...[
+
Aug 25 23:08:38 aliscafo he has been terminated...
  
−
[21:15] paveljanik:yes...
+
Aug 25 23:08:44 ericb2 As requested/expected last week, Shaun created new pages on the wiki, about aqua port
  
−
[21:15] paveljanik:I'll do so immediatelly I'm at home...
+
Aug 25 23:08:56 ericb2 about meeting contents too
  
−
[21:16] paveljanik:off topic should go to social@ ;-)
+
Aug 25 23:09:26 ericb2 I asked for a vote too
  
−
[21:16]ChristianL:ok I will hunt that transparency problem now, will be back for meeting :)
+
Aug 25 23:09:53 ericb2 about create a specific mailing list for aqua developpement on porting
  
−
[21:16] paveljanik:I'll take shower ;-)
+
Aug 25 23:10:09 ericb2 and we were not enough to decide
  
−
[21:16] ChristianL:we could add a visionary_mac@ooo for non developers :)
+
Aug 25 23:10:55 ericb2 +1 fro me, shaun , schmidtm
  
−
[21:20] paveljanik:it is interesting to talk about the future, ... when you also work on the present todo items ... yes
+
Aug 25 23:11:11 ericb2 -1 from maho and obr
  
−
[21:23] ChristianL:I don't think that we are that far from having ooo on mac without x11, so I agree current mac port is present. having some additional items as native filepicker is near future, rest is vision
+
Aug 25 23:11:14 * shaunmcdonald (n=shaunmcd@62-31-11-174.cable.ubr02.edin.blueyonder.co.uk) has joined #ooo_macport
  
−
[21:25] paveljanik:yes, and we have to made it into stone and use that stone to learn other people, to share this goal and to finish it.
+
Aug 25 23:11:26 shaunmcdonald sorry i'm late
  
−
[21:26] ChristianL:what me worries about james is that even it is clear he did not understand what he just read, he comments on it. weird. also it worries me how much energie some peoplse spend to just debate things when in general they share the same goal
+
Aug 25 23:11:27 ericb2 ChristianL +1
  
−
[21:35] ericb2 joined the chat room.
+
Aug 25 23:11:44 ericb2 aliscafo: pleas remind me your vote ?
  
−
[21:35] shaunmcdonald:ericb2: hi eric
+
Aug 25 23:11:55 ericb2 aliscafo: was +1
  
−
[21:36] ericb2:shaunmcdonald: hi Shaun
+
Aug 25 23:11:58 paveljanik As I will be reading both and in mix them into one folder anyway, I do not care.
  
−
[21:36] ericb2:hello all :-)
+
Aug 25 23:12:00 aliscafo ericb2: +1 yes
  
−
[21:36] shaunmcdonald:ericb2: enjoy your holiday?
+
Aug 25 23:12:02 shaunmcdonald ericb2: what vote?
  
−
[21:36] ericb2:shaunmcdonald: too short :-)
+
Aug 25 23:12:12 ericb2 shaunmcdonald: about aqua list
  
−
[21:37] ericb2:aliscafo: is your build issue solved ?
+
Aug 25 23:12:14 paveljanik so 0
  
−
[21:38] aliscafo:ericb2: nope
+
Aug 25 23:12:20 ericb2 paveljanik: noticed
  
−
[21:38] ericb2:aliscafo: I don't understand
+
Aug 25 23:12:35 paveljanik But what I'd like to avoid is people jumping into learnign Carbon instead of fixing X11 bugs...
  
−
[21:38] aliscafo:sending you the log
+
Aug 25 23:12:36 ericb2 none else will vote ?
  
−
[21:39] ericb2:aliscafo: yes
+
Aug 25 23:12:56 shaunmcdonald ah, so setup a separete list just for aqua stuff?
  
−
[21:39] ericb2:aliscafo: please
+
Aug 25 23:13:02 ericb2 shaunmcdonald: yes
  
−
[21:39] paveljanik:christianL: I already wrote to James several times that he could save his and also my time if he stops replying to all mails...
+
Aug 25 23:13:13 shaunmcdonald +1
  
−
[21:40] ChristianL:ericb2: tried my updates yet?
+
Aug 25 23:13:32 aliscafo ericb2: sorry to bring that up again, but wouldn't a forum make more sense for user
  
−
[21:42] aliscafo:ericb2: sent
+
Aug 25 23:14:00 aliscafo ericb2: i know it's not the most important issue, just my 2 cents
  
−
[21:43] ericb2:ChristianL:  I'll do soon :-)
+
Aug 25 23:14:11 ericb2 aliscafo: our lists are available using gmane, if I'm not wrong
  
−
[21:43] ericb2:ChristianL: just back from Restaurant ;-)
+
Aug 25 23:14:18 shaunmcdonald aliscafo: this is for developers, not users
  
−
[21:44] paveljanik:ericb2: any blog about WWDC?
+
Aug 25 23:14:39 shaunmcdonald ericb2: they have to be setup, not all are available
  
−
[21:44] ericb2:paveljanik: no
+
Aug 25 23:14:43 aliscafo shaunmcdonald: i thought it was for users sorry my bad
  
−
[21:45] ericb2:paveljanik: just a lot of photos
+
Aug 25 23:15:27 shaunmcdonald ericb2: there is also the archive on the ooo site within each project
  
−
[21:45] ericb2:paveljanik: outside
+
Aug 25 23:15:36 ericb2 shaunmcdonald: yes
  
−
[21:45] paveljanik:no blog, no info. no pics, nothing? ;-)
+
Aug 25 23:16:26 ericb2 I propsoe continue  this point in misc, we have important point this evening, and create a new list is secondary.
  
−
[21:47] ericb2:paveljanik: all public infos have been published. Just OpenOffice.org 2.0.' runs fine on Loepard
+
Aug 25 23:16:30 ericb2 ok ?
  
−
[21:47] ericb2:paveljanik: leopard
+
Aug 25 23:16:31 * ChristianL (n=Christia@e177163149.adsl.alicedsl.de) has joined #ooo_macport
  
−
[21:47] ericb2:paveljanik: built with Panther
+
Aug 25 23:17:24 ericb2 another point in last meeting was : maho proposed to create some page about QA process on the wiki.
  
−
[21:48] paveljanik:everything on WWDC is public, no secret info there...
+
Aug 25 23:17:37 ericb2 anyone knows something ?
  
−
[21:48] shaunmcdonald:ericb2: good to hear that
+
Aug 25 23:18:02 ericb2 that's all for the first point
  
−
[21:48] ericb2:paveljanik: not true. Just the keynote is public
+
Aug 25 23:18:10 ericb2 Point 2 : last changes in Aqua
  
−
[21:48] shaunmcdonald:ericb2: re ooo on leapard
+
Aug 25 23:18:18 ericb2 Pavel, Christian ?
  
−
[21:48] ericb2:shaunmcdonald: the preview
+
Aug 25 23:19:00 ChristianL I'm still working on the raster operations. some bugfixes, we now can play invaders
  
−
[21:48] ChristianL:my code crashes while loading a pengiun.png, could be a feature ...
+
Aug 25 23:19:18 paveljanik I added env. variables AQUA_* so we can easily test both VCL and native controls and menus.
  
−
[21:49] shaunmcdonald:ericb2: yes I know, can't wait to get my hands on the final, some neat features
+
Aug 25 23:19:40 paveljanik fixed menus, but unfortunately m182 broke them again, but it is not bug in aquavcl01 :-(
  
−
[21:49] ericb2:ChristianL: I can test with the old one, just for see. Got a lot of .png ;-)
+
Aug 25 23:19:49 paveljanik UTF8 encoded menus fork OK.
  
−
[21:50] ericb2:ChristianL:  http://eric.bachard.free.fr/mac/aquavcl/screenshots/ericb_18august/
+
Aug 25 23:19:59 paveljanik also menu items and menu activation events.
  
−
[21:52] ericb2:ChristianL: previous version opens .png in draw
+
Aug 25 23:20:00 shaunmcdonald ericb2: and they worked in ericb2's build
  
−
[21:53] ChristianL:thats old code from yesterday, I don't support that anymore :)
+
Aug 25 23:20:09 ericb2 maybe we could start with : OpenOffice.org runs without X11 . Launch it is still not easy, but it works
  
−
[21:54] ericb2:ChristianL:  :-)
+
Aug 25 23:20:26 paveljanik no, it starts ;-)
  
−
[21:56] paveljanik:ericb2: I do not understand you. I do not care about presentations contents. What about meetings, ...
+
Aug 25 23:20:33 shaunmcdonald ericb2: even registration works :-)
  
−
[21:56] paveljanik:anything interesting for our project?
+
Aug 25 23:20:41 paveljanik sometimes. Sometimes without splash etc.
  
−
[21:57] ericb2:paveljanik: the meeting will start is 4 or 5 minutes
+
Aug 25 23:20:43 paveljanik ;-)
  
−
[21:57] paveljanik:so you'll inform us about your WWDC meetings there¨ Good. incompatible encoding
+
Aug 25 23:20:48 ericb2 from my side, I can enter text in DRaw and writer
  
−
[21:59] ericb2:well we can start ?
+
Aug 25 23:20:53 ChristianL but it does not run out of the box yet
  
−
[22:00] ChristianL:• ChristianL is waiting patiently
+
Aug 25 23:20:53 shaunmcdonald ericb2: no need to disable it as you have said
  
−
[22:01] paveljanik:• paveljanik too
+
Aug 25 23:21:09 paveljanik I can't fill info into firststartwizard contact page...
  
−
[22:01] shaunmcdonald:• shaunmcdonald too
+
Aug 25 23:21:15 ericb2 shaunmcdonald: you're lucky. I never could make it work
  
−
[22:01] obr:• obr too
+
Aug 25 23:21:40 ericb2 paveljanik: just the keyboard must enabled
  
−
[22:02] ericb2:the agenda was prepared some times ago, and maybe the content is not completely exact
+
Aug 25 23:21:47 ericb2 rawevents
  
−
[22:02] ericb2:ok, let's go : welcome to the new people
+
Aug 25 23:21:53 shaunmcdonald ericb2: have to always disable the crash reporter though
  
−
[22:02] maho joined the chat room.
+
Aug 25 23:21:55 ChristianL I think after fixing the event loop problem the next big think is fixing the text
  
−
[22:02] ericb2:I see Christian is present and very active
+
Aug 25 23:22:02 paveljanik yep
  
−
[22:02] shaunmcdonald:maho: your just in time
+
Aug 25 23:22:35 paveljanik ChristianL: does keyboard work for you in invaders?
  
−
[22:02] ericb2:ChristianL:  may you please present you quickly ?
+
Aug 25 23:22:45 ericb2 ChristianL: what I observed is : hit one key and you got a complete line ( ~300 chars )
  
−
[22:03] maho:hello, shaunmcdonald and hello all!
+
Aug 25 23:22:50 ChristianL paveljanik: I have not yet add your keyboard patch
  
−
[22:03] fheckl joined the chat room.
+
Aug 25 23:23:08 paveljanik ChristianL: OK, I'll have a look at it in the night.
  
−
[22:03] ericb2:maho: hello
+
Aug 25 23:23:14 ChristianL ericb2: I don't mean the text input, I think that can be fixed easy. I mean the multiple line crashes and hangs
  
−
[22:03] ericb2:fheckl: hi Florian
+
Aug 25 23:23:18 paveljanik what else regarding native port?
  
−
[22:03] ChristianL : sure, for those that don't know yet, I'm working at sun for nearly 7 years now. I'm the technical lead of the impress team and the co lead of the ooo graphics project.
+
Aug 25 23:23:19 shaunmcdonald ericb2: I noticed that too, but it took a while to do it
  
−
[22:03] maho: hello ericb2
+
Aug 25 23:23:19 ericb2 ChristianL: the text layout is something funky currently
  
−
[22:03] fheckl: ericb: hi eric and dall
+
Aug 25 23:24:10 ChristianL maybe I can motivate stephan a bit next week
  
−
[22:04] fheckl: s/d//
+
Aug 25 23:24:12 ericb2 ChristianL: Oliver told me it's maybe because some pointer are not reinitialized in destructors
  
−
[22:04] ericb2: ChristianL:  that's great to see people like you come and help us !
+
Aug 25 23:24:33 ericb2 ChristianL: multiline destroctor gave me pretty crashes, right
  
−
[22:04] ChristianL: but I must add that i'm currently very active because i'm on vacation
+
Aug 25 23:24:50 ericb2 destructor
  
−
[22:04] maho: ChristianL : great to hear that!
+
Aug 25 23:25:15 ChristianL ericb2: Have you ever tried to valgrind? :)
  
−
[22:05] ericb2: ChristianL: and you bought a Mac if I'm not wrong
+
Aug 25 23:25:24 * maho (n=chatzill@softbank219188128038.bbtec.net) has joined #ooo_macport
  
−
[22:05] ericb2: may help ;-)
+
Aug 25 23:25:27 ericb2 ChristianL: no. Never used valgrind
  
−
[22:05] ChristianL: yes, pavel talked me into a mac mini
+
Aug 25 23:25:35 ericb2 hello maho :-)
  
−
[22:05] paveljanik: • paveljanik is ready to nack everything...
+
Aug 25 23:25:45 maho hi all , hi ericb2 ...
  
−
[22:06] ericb2: • ericb2 googling "nack" ...
+
Aug 25 23:25:55 ericb2 For the one interested in some screeshts, I have some links
  
−
[22:06] paveljanik: !ack
+
Aug 25 23:26:08 ericb2 Native controls (work in progress) :http://eric.bachard.free.fr/mac/aquavcl/screenshots/native_controls_part3/
  
−
[22:08] ericb2: maybe shaun can tell us about last website changes now ?
+
Aug 25 23:26:08 ericb2 Native menus (work in progress) : http://eric.bachard.free.fr/mac/aquavcl/screenshots/native_controls_part2/native_menus.jpg
  
−
[22:08] shaunmcdonald: hi
+
Aug 25 23:26:08 ericb2 Enter text (work in progress ): http://eric.bachard.free.fr/mac/aquavcl/screenshots/ats_24august/
  
−
[22:08] shaunmcdonald: there's not been much that I've done
+
Aug 25 23:26:42 ericb2 and if I can, I ave a list of "identified bugs"
  
−
[22:09] shaunmcdonald: there has been an e-mail out recently about some changes that were done, not by me
+
Aug 25 23:27:02 ericb2 one important is redrawing
  
−
[22:09] shaunmcdonald: re the left column and links in there
+
Aug 25 23:27:27 ericb2 when you modify something in a window, only resize the window redraws correctly the content
  
−
[22:09] shaunmcdonald: this affects the whole porting project
+
Aug 25 23:27:41 ericb2 there is some work for Tino IMO
  
−
[22:09] ericb2: shaunmcdonald: I ask because you have not enough rights to make changes, right ?
+
Aug 25 23:27:44 paveljanik for me, even the first window is not correctly drawn - I have to resize.
  
−
[22:09] shaunmcdonald : ericb2: correct
+
Aug 25 23:27:51 ericb2 paveljanik: right
  
−
[22:10] ericb2: shaunmcdonald: if I'm not wrong, you need developer rights
+
Aug 25 23:27:56 ChristianL me too
  
−
[22:10] shaunmcdonald: there is also a new style sheet being proposed for just the porting site
+
Aug 25 23:28:24 ericb2 paveljanik: and resize withut hit vcl part, else -> freeze
  
−
[22:10] shaunmcdonald: ericb2: just web developer/conent developer is enough
+
Aug 25 23:28:55 ericb2 ChristianL: is it possible to deactivate areas whre vcl controls are active ?
  
−
[22:10] ericb2: can anyone confirm : an ssh2 key is needed to commit for the website, right ?
+
Aug 25 23:29:25 ericb2 e.g. : http://eric.bachard.free.fr/mac/aquavcl/screenshots/controls_24august/resizing_bug.jpg
  
−
[22:11] maho: right
+
Aug 25 23:29:29 ChristianL ericb2: Which control do you mean?
  
−
[22:11] maho: we need ssh tunnel as well
+
Aug 25 23:29:47 ericb2 ChristianL: the one on bottom right
  
−
[22:11] ericb2: shaunmcdonald: so you'll have to ask for a key
+
Aug 25 23:30:05 ericb2 ChristianL: the grey rectangle under the Aqua control
  
−
[22:11] maho: please file as an issue
+
Aug 25 23:30:11 ChristianL I don't know yet
  
−
[22:11] shaunmcdonald: I have used ssh tunnel for sourceforge before
+
Aug 25 23:30:27 paveljanik and where it crash? gdb output?
  
−
[22:11] maho: then no problem.
+
Aug 25 23:30:33 ericb2 ChristianL: to reproduce, try to resize in common area
  
−
[22:12] shaunmcdonald: which area do I file issue?
+
Aug 25 23:30:39 ericb2 paveljanik: freeze
  
−
[22:12] ericb2: shaunmcdonald: let me search the page ...
+
Aug 25 23:30:54 ericb2 paveljanik: probably an event loop issue
  
−
[22:13] shaunmcdonald: ericb2: http://qa.openoffice.org/issue_handling/submission_gateway.html ?
+
Aug 25 23:31:00 paveljanik so stop it and print the stack, cont, stop, print the stack to get some info
  
−
[22:14] maho: shaunmacdonald : I'll tell you later.
+
Aug 25 23:31:08 ChristianL paveljanik: I'm on it
  
−
[22:14] maho: please e-mail me. or write an issue. I'll re-assign to you.
+
Aug 25 23:31:14 paveljanik ChristianL: OK.
  
−
[22:14] shaunmcdonald: maho: ok
+
Aug 25 23:31:54 paveljanik I think in the near future, we will be in the status where we should start filing proper issues for our problems...
  
−
[22:15] maho: ericb2 : we can proceed to next aganda or topic, right?
+
Aug 25 23:32:06 ericb2 something imortant would be to help us to debug. I have some basic knowledge, but I'm interested with tips using gdb
  
−
[22:15] ericb2: shaunmcdonald: be patient, this can take some times
+
Aug 25 23:32:10 ericb2 important
  
−
[22:15] maho: right. it takes time!
+
Aug 25 23:32:28 ChristianL ericb2: I have no such rectangle
  
−
[22:15] shaunmcdonald: anything else on web site?
+
Aug 25 23:32:40 ericb2 for the one reading french, I have writen some docs about gdb
  
−
[22:15] ericb2: maho: before, does anyone have comment(s) about the page under test ?
+
Aug 25 23:33:29 ericb2 ChristianL: did you set AQUA_NATIVE_CONTROLS to TRUE ?
  
−
[22:16] shaunmcdonald: other thing that I have been doing is translation of QA howto
+
Aug 25 23:33:58 ericb2 ChristianL: verified with both Tino's build and mine
  
−
[22:16] shaunmcdonald: ericb2: ah, we still need a high level map of content on the site
+
Aug 25 23:35:32 ChristianL ericb2: No, even with native controls
  
−
[22:16] shaunmcdonald: ericb2: that doesn't need web developer priv or ssh key
+
Aug 25 23:35:45 ChristianL but we can discuss this another time I think
  
−
[22:17] shaunmcdonald: ericb2: just draw, though bit annoying with default large font
+
Aug 25 23:35:49 paveljanik I too do no have that rectangle in my build...
  
−
[22:17] ericb2: shaunmcdonald: ok
+
Aug 25 23:35:53 ericb2 ChristianL: I promise I didn't cheat with my screenshot :-)
  
−
[22:18] ericb2: native port news now ?
+
Aug 25 23:36:44 ericb2 BTW, I can upload a PPC build on demand
  
−
[22:18] shaunmcdonald : on the QA howto see http://smsm1.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/ooo/qa/index.html#howto
+
Aug 25 23:37:16 ChristianL ericb2: If you do not cheat, where is your status bar?
  
−
[22:18] shaunmcdonald: next item
+
Aug 25 23:38:03 ericb2 ChristianL: I cut the interesting part of the shot
  
−
[22:18] ericb2: shaunmcdonald: thank's for your work
+
Aug 25 23:38:26 ericb2 ChristianL: this is just the window, at startup
  
−
[22:18] shaunmcdonald: ericb2: :-) it is tough
+
Aug 25 23:39:21 ericb2 ChristianL: let me 5 minutes to show you another interesting effect
  
−
[22:19] ericb2: none has something to say about last native port news :-))
+
Aug 25 23:39:31 paveljanik after the meeting please
  
−
[22:19] ericb2: ?
+
Aug 25 23:39:37 ChristianL +1
  
−
[22:19] fheckl: christian should have...
+
Aug 25 23:40:57 paveljanik what next?
  
−
[22:20] ericb2: fheckl: yes ;-)
+
Aug 25 23:41:19 paveljanik aliscafo: what is the status of you rwork on controls?
  
−
[22:20] ChristianL: well what can I see, you have seen the screen shots and maybe read my wiki :)
+
Aug 25 23:41:24 paveljanik any other info?
  
−
[22:20] ChristianL: so for those who don't know, I'm currently focus on the bitmap and drawing part of the port
+
Aug 25 23:41:26 ericb2 nothing java works
  
−
[22:21] ChristianL: for bitmap support, that is 99% done, but not yet working without errors
+
Aug 25 23:43:21 ericb2 aliscafo: ?
  
−
[22:21] ChristianL: for drawing support, currently mainly the raster operations are missing
+
Aug 25 23:44:13 ericb2 ChristianL: for scrollbar, We discussed with Pierre, and he convinced me to just implement drawNativeControl()
  
−
[22:21] maho: really great
+
Aug 25 23:44:23 ericb2 ChristianL: no ImplDrawNativeControl()
  
−
[22:21] ChristianL: I will write an entire section about that soon, but basicaly it is the stuff that
+
Aug 25 23:44:34 ericb2 ChristianL: just use default theme
  
−
[22:22] ChristianL: is used to draw cursors, selection frames and also some transparency. And it is also used for bitmap fillings in non rectangular areas
+
Aug 25 23:45:34 ChristianL yes as I said, you do not have to do it exactly like windows
  
−
[22:22] ChristianL: and it is a bit picky because mac does not support it, as far as I can see it now
+
Aug 25 23:45:53 ericb2 ChristianL: I'm ok
  
−
[22:22] ChristianL: so, another thing I tried is the appearance manager
+
Aug 25 23:46:14 ericb2 ChristianL: I'll try to add things progressively
  
−
[22:22] ChristianL: that is the code from apple that is also used by mozilla to draw its native widgets
+
Aug 25 23:46:25 paveljanik ericb2: so do you have some screenshots to show?
  
−
[22:22] ChristianL: thats very easy to use, implementing all of it is just a bit of
+
Aug 25 23:46:31 paveljanik or sample code?
  
−
[22:23] ChristianL: missing a verb here, it is just a bunch of stupid work :)
+
Aug 25 23:46:33 paveljanik aliscafo: ?
  
−
[22:23] ChristianL: That would cause the basic native widgets to look like aqua widgets, kind of like the luna theme on windows
+
Aug 25 23:46:40 ericb2 I know Pierre fixed other controls, but better wait a bit
  
−
[22:23] • ChristianL is done, any questions?
+
Aug 25 23:46:48 ericb2 he's maybe not far
  
−
[22:24] paveljanik: christianl: I think the best solution for it is implementing one widget perfectly as a template...
+
Aug 25 23:47:15 ericb2 paveljanik: just writen my plan on a paper, far from the screen
  
−
[22:24] maho: Really great works ChristianL!
+
Aug 25 23:47:50 ericb2 paveljanik: implement getThemeHandle() e.g. is very important for other controls
  
−
[22:24] fheckl : good work so far
+
Aug 25 23:48:48 ericb2 No other news from aqua port ?
  
−
[22:24] paveljanik:and other people can stand and continue with other widgets...
+
Aug 25 23:49:13 ericb2 Point 3 ?
  
−
[22:25] maho:ChristianL : Please tell us your RSS feed and your blog is listed on http://planet.go-oo.org/ ...
+
Aug 25 23:49:24 ericb2 Process of integrating changes from aquavcl01 into the main tree
  
−
[22:25] ChristianL:I think maybe thats a good area for aliscafo
+
Aug 25 23:49:29 paveljanik I'd like head aliscafo's status as well, but it can wait.
  
−
[22:25] ericb2:ChristianL:† yes, very good work, and in some days only[22:25]ChristianL:maho, I don't blog, nor do I RSS ;-)
+
Aug 25 23:49:36 paveljanik ok, point 3.
  
−
[22:25] aliscafo:ChristianL: sure if it's stupid work ;)[22:25]maho:okay[22:25]ChristianL:aliscafo, but not for one that is stupid ,-)
+
Aug 25 23:49:41 * obr_ (n=olli@d018097.adsl.hansenet.de) has joined #ooo_macport
  
−
[22:25] paveljanik:christianl: I'd also prefer blog instead of wiki... ;-)[22:26]ChristianL:maybe later[22:26]maho:me too, I prefer blog ;)
+
Aug 25 23:50:17 paveljanik as you know, my opinion on integration of aquavcl01 from the last meeting (it does not make sense now), I have prepared
 +
proposal for integration of some fixes from it...
  
−
[22:27] ChristianL:what I mean with the work for the native widgets is that you can do it without much prior knowledge to OOo
+
Aug 25 23:50:23 paveljanik I sent it to the list
  
−
[22:27] maho:aha
+
Aug 25 23:50:32 ericb2 Yes, the starting point is Pavel's mail
  
−
[22:27] paveljanik:I can confirm this...
+
Aug 25 23:50:48 ericb2 one minute, i'll give the link to the archives
  
−
[22:28] ericb2:As summary :† eventloop is not solved, graphical points are work in progress and I identified some bugs with fonts testing my own build
+
Aug 25 23:51:14 ericb2 http://porting.openoffice.org/servlets/ReadMsg?list=mac&msgNo=3384
  
−
[22:28] ChristianL:I will add a little info on that on my wiki-blog tomorrow
+
Aug 25 23:52:10 paveljanik opinions?
  
−
[22:28] ericb2:ChristianL:† yes, please ![22:28]maho:Sounds very nice!
+
Aug 25 23:52:17 ericb2 from my side I completely agree. We must have a strategy for aquavcl01 integration
  
−
[22:28] ChristianL:Suggestion: What about making entires in wiki for event loop, graphics, font and native widgets?
+
Aug 25 23:52:28 ericb2 and mad64 experience helps
  
−
[22:29] ericb2:ChristianL : yes ,† very good idea !
+
Aug 25 23:52:38 paveljanik this process was a large lesson from ooo64bit01, 02 etc...
  
−
[22:29] paveljanik:... instead of generics like printing, ...? ;-)
+
Aug 25 23:52:42 paveljanik yes
  
−
[22:29] ChristianL:ericb2: Your wiki user page is ok, but a little to much for one page, so I did not add my bitmap findings there
+
Aug 25 23:52:50 maho question : we need to make some cwses other than aquavcl?
  
−
[22:30] aliscafo:ChristianL: I am relieved I thought you were saying I am stupid ;)
+
Aug 25 23:53:00 maho take aquavcl as head?
  
−
[22:30] ericb2:ChristianL: in fact, I'm waiting for someone using what we can find in my page, to build other ;-)
+
Aug 25 23:53:26 paveljanik maho: have you read my proposal?
  
−
[22:30] aliscafo:ericb2: do we have anybody working on the event loop?
+
Aug 25 23:53:40 maho briefly...
  
−
[22:30] ericb2:aliscafo: I have some infos ...
+
Aug 25 23:54:10 paveljanik yes, for us, we will work in aquavcl01 as a HEAD. Sometimes, some fixes from it will be duplicated in other cws, integrated and
 +
will be removed from aquavcl01 on resync.
  
−
[22:31] ericb2:about event loop, I met an Apple engineer (I have his mail), and† he proposed me to use something similar, but I have to discuss with Tino before
+
Aug 25 23:54:58 maho I didn't understand `"upstream" - report them to other projects, fix the in small cwses'
  
−
[22:31] fheckl: fheckl will be away now but I will read up later on
+
Aug 25 23:55:03 maho in your e-mail.
  
−
[22:31] maho:bye fheckl
+
Aug 25 23:55:18 paveljanik upstream for the fix in freetype for us is module gsl ;-)
  
−
[22:31] ericb2:bye fheckl
+
Aug 25 23:55:44 maho okay, as you told just above, we need some double efforts ;)
  
−
[22:33] ericb2:He proposed me to use InstallEventLoopTimer with GetCurrentEventLoop and NewEventLoopTimerUPP as parameter
+
Aug 25 23:56:02 maho for one issue, to cwses
  
−
[22:33] ericb2:parameters
+
Aug 25 23:56:04 maho to -> two
  
−
[22:33] ericb2:replacing RunApplicationEventLoop()
+
Aug 25 23:56:35 paveljanik maho: no. We can report it to other project and wait until they fix it properly in their own cwses ;-)
  
−
[22:35] paveljanik:but we do not use RAEL...
+
Aug 25 23:56:53 paveljanik the goal is to prevent LARGE QA overhead at the end of aquavcl01...
  
−
[22:35] ericb2:paveljanik:† we should
+
Aug 25 23:57:14 maho um,
  
−
[22:36] paveljanik:but we can't because VCL is using Yield and co...
+
Aug 25 23:57:17 maho hm
  
−
[22:36] paveljanik:this is the reason why we have to process events manually...
+
Aug 25 23:57:21 paveljanik but IMHO we should not spend too much time discussing stuff not directly connected with native port...
  
−
[22:36] ericb2:paveljanik: yes, but what he proposed me is very similar, and should help to install event handlers
+
Aug 25 23:57:28 ericb2 Currently, 10 modules are currently cncerned by aquavcl01 : canvas dtrans extensions freetype padmin psprint scp2 sj2 solenv and
 +
vcl.  the "core" of aquavcl01 is vcl
  
−
[22:37] ericb2:and this is even very close to Tino's implementation.
+
Aug 25 23:57:51 ericb2 any volunteer for this job ?
  
−
[22:37] ericb2:that's the reason why I wanted to discuss with him
+
Aug 25 23:57:57 ChristianL Its to bad that we can't 'remove' projects from the cws
  
−
[22:37] paveljanik:what could help is when Apple publihes what RAEL does in the form of source code....
+
Aug 25 23:58:08 ericb2 ChristianL: yes
  
−
[22:38] ericb2:paveljanik: I can ask
+
Aug 25 23:58:18 ericb2 ChristianL: all resync will continue to use them
  
−
[22:40] aliscafo:ericb2: do you have contacts at apple?
+
Aug 25 23:58:21 paveljanik ChristianL: I have promise from heiner, that he will work on it ;-)
  
−
[22:40] ericb2:aliscafo: yes
+
Aug 25 23:58:29 paveljanik cwsremove :-)
  
−
[22:40] paveljanik:ok, what next?
+
Aug 25 23:58:51 paveljanik before it, we can ask for manual module removal as we did with ooo64bit02.
  
−
[22:40] schmidtm joined the chat room.
+
Aug 25 23:58:58 ericb2 like cwsremove patch
  
−
[22:41] schmidtm:hi *, sorry for beeing late ...
+
Aug 25 23:59:01 maho Last question: do we need to fill out spec? (IMHO we don't need it this is a porting effort)
  
−
[22:41] ericb2:again on WWDC, I discussed with design engineers, and we have a lot to do. Most important is our menus
+
Aug 25 23:59:04 * ericb2 joking
  
−
[22:41] ericb2:completely windows like
+
Aug 25 23:59:15 ChristianL maho: no
  
−
[22:42] paveljanik:native/vcl or contents of menus in general?
+
Aug 25 23:59:37 maho okay
  
−
[22:42] ericb2:I think we can expect Apple help as soon we have correct menus
+
Aug 25 23:59:38 ericb2 maho: good question :-)
  
−
[22:42] ericb2:paveljanik: content of menus
+
Aug 25 23:59:48 paveljanik at least not yet. I can imagine we will need new VCL functionality in the future...
  
−
[22:43] paveljanik:so the VCL menu in every window is not a big problem?
+
Aug 26 00:00:02 ericb2 paveljanik: you mean new vcl ?
  
−
[22:43] ericb2:paveljanik: not discussed about that
+
Aug 26 00:00:12 ericb2 :)
  
−
[22:43] You have set yourself away with "be back soon".
+
Aug 26 00:00:21 paveljanik ;-)
  
−
[22:44] aliscafo:paveljanik: what's left to do with menus?
+
Aug 26 00:00:24 ChristianL paveljanik: But we should wait for new visible features until we finished aquavcl01
  
−
[22:44] paveljanik:so I think we can't change it soon :-(
+
Aug 26 00:00:27 * obr has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  
−
[22:45] ericb2:paveljanik: wich modules are concerned† ? Only vcl ?
+
Aug 26 00:00:38 ChristianL I mean visible features beside porting
  
−
[22:45] ChristianL:the contents of the menus is xml only, so that could be changed very easy, maybe with xslt
+
Aug 26 00:00:40 paveljanik ChristianL: yes, of course. And maybe even aquavcl03...
  
−
[22:46] paveljanik:aliscafo: looks like there is some problem in the real app - empty strings instead of texts. it works in svdem though... I have to debug it. But this is native/vcl menus issue, not the menu contents issue...
+
Aug 26 00:01:24 * obr_ is now known as obr
  
−
[22:46] paveljanik:ericb2: for menu contents?
+
Aug 26 00:01:47 paveljanik ericb2: we do not need volunteer. Read my mail to the end.
  
−
[22:47] aliscafo:paveljanik: ok
+
Aug 26 00:01:55 * ericb2 reads
  
−
[22:47] ericb2:paveljanik: for menu contents first. User point of view
+
Aug 26 00:02:20 paveljanik I'll bug you all to help me ;-)
  
−
[22:47] ericb2:@all:† http://eric.bachard.free.fr/mac/aquavcl/patches/events/InstallEventLooptimer.cxx
+
Aug 26 00:02:25 ChristianL do we already have fixes for aqua only in other modules than vcl?
  
−
[22:48] paveljanik:users see native menus as a bigger problem. at least this is what you have† been saying in the past...
+
Aug 26 00:02:27 ericb2 paveljanik: was hidden under another window :-)
  
−
[22:49] ericb2:this is still the case
+
Aug 26 00:02:50 ericb2 ChristianL: solenv for the build
  
−
[22:49] paveljanik:because you do not care about menu content when the complete menu is not there, where you expect it to be :-)
+
Aug 26 00:02:52 paveljanik ChristianL: only build fixes so far, non-code stuff.
  
−
[22:51] ericb2:as reminder, what Mac users expect:† no X11, same behaviour than other real Mac applications (keyboard), native filepicker, all the usual fonts available, native printing, and aqua look.
+
Aug 26 00:03:08 ericb2 ChristianL: dtrans maybe
  
−
[22:52] ericb2:(in chaotic order)
+
Aug 26 00:03:25 ChristianL I was thinking about moving all aqua stuff from vcl to a new project, so we don't need to ship two vcl libs if we support
 +
x11&native in one inst set
  
−
[22:52] maho:† † † † † † † :) † † † † †
+
Aug 26 00:04:11 paveljanik ChristianL: uff, I somehow prefer the current setup. At least now :-)
  
−
[22:52] ericb2:Other native port news ?
+
Aug 26 00:04:17 paveljanik it was only an idea...
  
−
[22:52] ericb2:maho: ;-)
+
Aug 26 00:04:35 ericb2 We have to take care with the libs linked with Xlib
  
−
[22:53] maho:no ... I'm interested in QA now..
+
Aug 26 00:05:20 ChristianL technicaly there is no need that what is in vcl/aqua stays in the vcl lib. but just an idea for now
  
−
[22:53] paveljanik:ericb2: so Apple will help us when we have simple, more Mac like menus, despite the fact that menus are on the top of every window? Do I understood it right?
+
Aug 26 00:05:48 ericb2 ChristianL: we need the independant platform part ?  
  
−
[22:54] ericb2:paveljanik: hmm ... only one menu, and on the menubar, but maybe we ould try with lighter menus on every windows. No guarantees
+
Aug 26 00:06:30 ChristianL we could have something like aquasal.dylib and x11sal.dylib and load the dynamic. depending on a startup switch maybe
  
−
[22:54] paveljanik: paveljanik is a bit slower, typing on small Nokia keyboard :-(
+
Aug 26 00:07:54 shaunmcdonald ChristianL: some graphically set switch?
  
−
[22:54] ericb2:s/ould/could/
+
Aug 26 00:07:55 ChristianL can be done later, so maybe sleep over it :)
  
−
[22:55] ericb2:next point : X11 news
+
Aug 26 00:08:38 ericb2 ChristianL: really, I think build for X11 and Aqua is not a good idea. And te future of OpenOfice.org on Mac OS X is Aqua
  
−
[22:55] paveljanik:so what is more important for them?
+
Aug 26 00:09:01 paveljanik yay, this is why Apple invented Universal Binaries... ;-)
  
−
[22:56] ericb2:paveljanik: have menus with inside, what needs the user *now* , not zillions of secondary possibilities the user don't need.† 20% visible, 80% hidden
+
Aug 26 00:09:09 paveljanik The future is Intel, BUT...
  
−
[22:57] ericb2:paveljanik: e.g. : when you start the application: something proposing which sort of document you want to create
+
Aug 26 00:09:14 paveljanik in the meantime...
  
−
[22:57] ericb2:nothing else
+
Aug 26 00:09:23 ericb2 UB + X11 + Aqua + .. 64bits ? :-)
  
−
[22:57] paveljanik:good, so menu contents...
+
Aug 26 00:09:33 ChristianL ok maybe we discuss this at the point in time we actually have a native port for users
  
−
[22:58] ericb2:yes
+
Aug 26 00:09:41 paveljanik yes...
  
−
[22:58] ericb2:I'm only about menus contents
+
Aug 26 00:09:54 paveljanik but I'm happy at least we think of it ;-)
  
−
[22:58] ericb2:in some words, OpenOffice.org is too complicated to use
+
Aug 26 00:10:21 ericb2 Other quesiotns about this point ?
  
−
[22:59] paveljanik:hmm, this is currently out of our scope.
+
Aug 26 00:10:23 paveljanik it will make our debugging easy...
  
−
[23:00] ericb2:paveljanik: we could start to describe the job, and ask† (where ?). Maybe Christian Jansen ?
+
Aug 26 00:10:36 ericb2 no objections ?
  
−
[23:01] ericb2:next point ?† (important)
+
Aug 26 00:10:37 paveljanik no
  
−
[23:01] ericb2:aquavcl01 integration
+
Aug 26 00:10:44 maho no
  
−
[23:01] ChristianL:Mathias M¸ller Prowe replaced Christian Jansen for such issues incompatible encoding
+
Aug 26 00:11:11 ericb2 I think Pavel's proposal is accepted by unanimity
  
−
[23:01] ericb2:I first proposed :
+
Aug 26 00:11:12 obr no
  
−
[23:01] ericb2:decide what can be integrated
+
Aug 26 00:11:19 ericb2 obr: sorry :)
  
−
[23:01] ericb2:decide a plan to write documentation about the changes
+
Aug 26 00:11:23 obr np
  
−
[23:01] ericb2:decide to write a todo list
+
Aug 26 00:11:42 ericb2 Point 4 : Todolist and Roadmap
  
−
[23:02] ericb2:in Action items
+
Aug 26 00:12:12 ericb2 on http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/MacOSXPortMeetings I proposed a todolist and a roadmap for native prt
  
−
[23:02] ChristianL:(M¸ller-Prowe is also a Mac User) incompatible encoding
+
Aug 26 00:12:32 ericb2 First todo list
  
−
[23:02] ericb2:ChristianL: thank you for the information
+
Aug 26 00:13:37 ericb2 these is one of the most often asked questions at the WWDC, when I discussed with other devs or ...  : "... do you have a todo list ?"
  
−
[23:02] ericb2:ChristianL: so better catch ;-)
+
Aug 26 00:13:53 ericb2 so I propose one
  
−
[23:03] paveljanik:I do not have anything to say now about aquavcl01 integration...
+
Aug 26 00:15:08 paveljanik hos is your new TODO connected with your old TODO at http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Mac_OS_X_Porting_-
 +
_Work_Areas/Todo%27s
  
−
[23:03] ericb2:paveljanik: now, a lot of code is concerned, and a good part could be integrated without problem
+
Aug 26 00:15:18 ericb2 what is missing is the link for the wiki page about todo's
  
−
[23:03] ericb2:paveljanik: would simplify the builds
+
Aug 26 00:15:30 ericb2 I think put this link at the end
  
−
[23:04] ericb2:paveljanik: wrong code can always be modified
+
Aug 26 00:16:03 ericb2 the problem we have : the wiki page needs update, and none ..cares
  
−
[23:04] paveljanik:I personally do not care from where the code comes from...
+
Aug 26 00:16:17 paveljanik I think this one TODO is anough, and simply have to update it and keep it up-to-date.
  
−
[23:04] ericb2:BTW, canvas and extensions need some fixes
+
Aug 26 00:16:37 paveljanik yes, we don't need several TODOs. One is enough and we have to find someone managing it.
  
−
[23:04] paveljanik:cws, milestone, I do not care...
+
Aug 26 00:16:42 ChristianL I'm with paveljanik, but I think also we need a roadmap for the TODO's
  
−
[23:05] ericb2:paveljanik: we need people bulding and simply testing
+
Aug 26 00:16:43 ericb2 paveljanik: my first idea is to blog about Todolist and a Roadmap
  
−
[23:05] ericb2:building
+
Aug 26 00:16:50 shaunmcdonald What is going to happen to the current todo?
  
−
[23:05] maho:really?
+
Aug 26 00:17:04 ericb2 shaunmcdonald: we will try to update
  
−
[23:05] paveljanik:when we have working OOo, I'll be the first one to clean it and prepare it for QA.
+
Aug 26 00:17:05 paveljanik I'd first prefer to discuss roadmap anyway. We all simply should have a common goal.
  
−
[23:05] schmidtm:maho: yes i think so
+
Aug 26 00:17:11 paveljanik 1. remove x11
  
−
[23:06] maho:paveljanik : I think you will do ;)
+
Aug 26 00:17:21 paveljanik 2. continue with aquafication.
  
−
[23:06] ericb2:maho: yes : a lot of bugs can be detectd. e.g. font are "flipped" , symbols are not centered ..etc
+
Aug 26 00:17:26 paveljanik 1. is crucial for me!
  
−
[23:06] paveljanik:in the meantime, this is a lot of lost work that could be spent on the *actual* work.
+
Aug 26 00:17:49 paveljanik although I worked on menus, but this was interesting to get some Carbon knowledge.
  
−
[23:06] maho:I think so too.
+
Aug 26 00:17:55 ChristianL paveljanik: +1, we should have a working aqua port before we do the candy stuff like native file manager
  
−
[23:07] schmidtm:paveljanik: exactly, right.
+
Aug 26 00:18:24 ChristianL with aqua I also include native menu and controls
  
−
[23:07] ericb2:paveljanik: what do you propose
+
Aug 26 00:18:24 ericb2 paveljanik: to reach 1, we need very high level devs, and for  2, I think at least controls are a good compromise
  
−
[23:07] ericb2:?
+
Aug 26 00:18:30 shaunmcdonald paveljanik: that is a very good high level view
  
−
[23:07] ChristianL:since we have no much work resyncing aquavcl01 to any current milestone, I would not consider integrating it an option before we have something that *works*
+
Aug 26 00:18:54 ericb2 paveljanik: and this is less complicated to help for control.
  
−
[23:07] paveljanik:spend the time of people wanting to make it ready for QA tomorrow on making the bitmap transparency work?
+
Aug 26 00:19:07 ericb2 paveljanik: I really think both can be made in parallel
  
−
[23:08] paveljanik:or native menus...
+
Aug 26 00:19:13 paveljanik of course if we have something more (some controls, menus) good, but non-X11 is crucial!
  
−
[23:08] ChristianL:As soon as the office is nearly usable, we can provide test builds from the cws, no need for integration
+
Aug 26 00:20:04 paveljanik because after we remove X11, we will have to create the package for users! This is also lot of work and at this time, people can  
 +
continue on native conrols, menus, spell, filemanager, ...
  
−
[23:08] ericb2:paveljanik: to avoid confusion, may you please explain us what native menus means. Sometimes, I doubt ...
+
Aug 26 00:20:15 paveljanik but 1. remove X11 is crucial!
  
−
[23:08] paveljanik:now that freetypy changes are deleted from aquavcl01, resyncing is easy...
+
Aug 26 00:20:23 paveljanik and again:
  
−
[23:09] ChristianL:btw: Matthias.Mueller-Prove@Sun.COM
+
Aug 26 00:20:26 paveljanik 1. remove X11 is crucial!
  
−
[23:09] ericb2:ChristianL: thank you !
+
Aug 26 00:20:27 ericb2 paveljanik: ATS, Drawing, events is very complicated
  
−
[23:09] ChristianL:ericb2, paveljanik: I would love to see both the event loop and the native menu aproach described in short sentences on a wiki entry :)
+
Aug 26 00:20:42 ericb2 s/is/are/
  
−
[23:10] ericb2:ChristianL: I'll do. separated pages
+
Aug 26 00:20:47 paveljanik we can't do controls without having redraw corrected.
  
−
[23:10] paveljanik:common changes for generic code should be fixed in regular dev. process, of course, so the amount of fixes in aquavcl01 is connected only with the real port.
+
Aug 26 00:20:50 * fredv78 has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
  
−
[23:11] paveljanik:ericb2: have you actually read the screenshots page at all?
+
Aug 26 00:20:55 paveljanik We can;t do easy stuff because it is easy now!
  
−
[23:11] ericb2:paveljanik: BTW, just wondering: the licence is not shown on second screen. Could it be because the font is default font, and we don't use X11 stuff ?
+
Aug 26 00:21:18 paveljanik having button, perfectly working is enough for the first phase.
  
−
[23:11] You have returned from away.
+
Aug 26 00:21:19 ericb2 paveljanik: some of us can't simply contribute for complicated parts
  
−
[23:11] ericb2:paveljanik: wich one ? your page ?
+
Aug 26 00:21:38 ChristianL from my point of view what is missing for point 1: text layout, complete font support, keyboard support, fixing repaint issues,
 +
having aqua install and run out of the box
  
−
[23:11] ChristianL:ericb2: No thats a problem with text layouting
+
Aug 26 00:22:06 paveljanik ChristianL: yes, at least now. maybe during the time working fonts will bring other issues.
  
−
[23:11] maho:we should replace VCL.xcu
+
Aug 26 00:22:13 paveljanik which we can;t see yet.
  
−
[23:12] ericb2:maho: exactly the file I had in mind ;-)
+
Aug 26 00:22:22 ChristianL I like to start on the repaint and keyboard issues
  
−
[23:12] paveljanik:maybe. but the UI text is shown...
+
Aug 26 00:22:53 paveljanik Thanks!
  
−
[23:12]maho:paveljanik : ?
+
Aug 26 00:23:18 ChristianL for text and font we either need a good c++ developer who likes to get deep into thinks or we must motivate stephan and
 +
herbert
  
−
[23:13] paveljanik:native menu means Mac OS X menus, not VCL menus on top of every window...
+
Aug 26 00:23:18 ericb2 ChristianL: I agree with your list. For keyboard, I tested Pavel's work, and I have noticed some bugs
  
−
[23:13] ericb2:paveljanik: so this is probably a text layouting issue
+
Aug 26 00:23:47 paveljanik BTW: work is a too strong word ;-)
  
−
[23:13] maho:aha
+
Aug 26 00:24:19 ericb2 ChristianL: they are not motivated ? :-)
  
−
[23:14] paveljanik:there is always one native menu for all windows, but every window has its own VCL menu (not completely true, but descriptive)
+
Aug 26 00:24:36 ChristianL they are but the need to devote more time :)
  
−
[23:14] ChristianL:TextEngine, EditEngine, Outliner, Writer, MultiLineEditControl. Everything with a line break does not work.
+
Aug 26 00:25:16 ericb2 ChristianL: if I'm not wrong, hdu told me about 700 issues about fonts  :0
  
−
[23:15] ericb2:ChristianL: yes
+
Aug 26 00:25:20 ChristianL from my point of view, repaint and keyboard is simple and easy to fix. setup just is work. but layout and font is crucial and
 +
needs time and specialists
  
−
[23:15] paveljanik:christianL: worth mentioning somewhere :-)
+
Aug 26 00:26:28 paveljanik I'll try to help obr with installing and bundle
  
−
[23:15] ChristianL:paveljanik: What about making writer, calc, impress different applications so each has its unique native menu?
+
Aug 26 00:26:30 ericb2 does a documentation about the work already done in aquavcl01 exist ?
  
−
[23:16] paveljanik:this is also my About window endless loop issue, right?
+
Aug 26 00:27:24 * aliscafo_ (n=aliscafo@adsl-074-237-094-051.sip.mia.bellsouth.net) has joined #ooo_macport
  
−
[23:16] ChristianL:paveljanik, most likely
+
Aug 26 00:28:14 ericb2 paveljanik: in the top 10, people often ask " when I close the window, OpenOffice.org is closed ".  I think launch another
 +
application, lauching OpenOffice.org could help to solve this and maybe more
  
−
[23:16] ChristianL:as this seems to be a simple issue, I will look at it as soon as I fixed my personal nemesis, the transparency of toolbar images
+
Aug 26 00:28:41 paveljanik ericb2: this will be on our TODO after we remove X11.
  
−
[23:16] paveljanik:christianL: this does not make sense. We *can* switch different menus in that one native menubar...
+
Aug 26 00:28:45 ericb2 paveljanik: thus, close athe last window won't close OpenOffice.org anymore
  
−
[23:17] ChristianL:paveljanik, sorry, I thougt there can be only one. Than we can always use the menu of the active window, so where is the problem?
+
Aug 26 00:28:53 paveljanik in fact, not exiting is quite simple ;-)
  
−
[23:18] ericb2:paveljanik: it it possible to hide the window menubar, and display it as "native " ?
+
Aug 26 00:28:58 ericb2 paveljanik: put this in setup
  
−
[23:18] paveljanik:christianl: no problem so far ;-) I was just describing native vs vcl menus ;-)
+
Aug 26 00:28:58 ChristianL ericb2: I think we should modify the 'backing' window for that
  
−
[23:18] ChristianL:(But having all application seperate would be mor iWork like ... )
+
Aug 26 00:29:18 paveljanik setup?
  
−
[23:18] ericb2:paveljanik: I remember a variable to set as TRUE
+
Aug 26 00:29:33 ericb2 paveljanik: sorry, bundle
  
−
[23:18] ericb2:..[23:18]paveljanik:ericb2: do you read my mails at all? ;-)
+
Aug 26 00:29:40 * aliscafo has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
  
−
[23:19] ericb2:paveljanik: it depends / I received ~2000 mails since the last two weeks
+
Aug 26 00:29:41 paveljanik do we have a list of questions people often ask?
  
−
[23:19] aliscafo:ericb2: if I understand pavel correctly native menus work in svdem but there are some bugs with the real applications
+
Aug 26 00:29:52 ericb2 of course
  
−
[23:20] paveljanik:which reminds me I'll rewrite it in the similar way like christianl's makefil.mk define...
+
Aug 26 00:29:58 paveljanik this is not connected with the bundle but with the application itself.
  
−
[23:21] ericb2:paveljanik I meant to† BOOL AquaSalMenu::VisibleMenuBar()
+
Aug 26 00:30:10 ericb2 native filpicker, native printing box drag and drop
  
−
[23:21] ChristianL:I may be a humble mac beginner, but I suspect the problems with native menus are connected to the event loop not yet working..
+
Aug 26 00:30:39 paveljanik so we can create a list of KNOWN_BUGS ;-)
  
−
[23:21] paveljanik:yes
+
Aug 26 00:30:41 ericb2 paveljanik: I'm not sure, maybe a simple solution can be found
  
−
[23:21] ericb2:ChristianL: it is
+
Aug 26 00:30:57 ericb2 paveljanik: there is already one on the wiki
  
−
[23:22] paveljanik:christianl: it works now, but with a hack.
+
Aug 26 00:31:23 paveljanik for first Aqua version of OOo (ie. OOo without X11).
  
−
[23:22] paveljanik:ok, looks like I have to commit my code and make it default instead of the need to enable it :-))))
+
Aug 26 00:31:57 ericb2 paveljanik: do you mean the current one, or when launcher will work ?
  
−
[23:23] ericb2:paveljanik: you don't think the code I received will help ?
+
Aug 26 00:32:08 paveljanik launcher?
  
−
[23:24] paveljanik:ericb2: maybe. I haven't yet investigated. cut&paste does not work here...
+
Aug 26 00:32:26 ericb2 paveljanik: bundle ...whatever thing to be clicked on
  
−
[23:25] ChristianL:paveljanik: Great idea
+
Aug 26 00:32:48 ericb2 paveljanik: currently we do black magic to make it work
  
−
[23:25] ericb2:Next point ?
+
Aug 26 00:32:53 paveljanik yes, without it, there is no app for users
  
−
[23:26] ericb2:a FAQ :† create a dedicated list, to separate devel from users informations
+
Aug 26 00:33:03 ChristianL ericb2, paveljanik: I think the clicked on binary must be soffice.bin or the events will not work
  
−
[23:27] ericb2:none interested ?
+
Aug 26 00:33:06 paveljanik aliscafo_: ping
  
−
[23:27] shaunmcdonald:I had hand written some notes on a ooo mac troubleshooter that could be done
+
Aug 26 00:33:23 paveljanik ChristianL: yes.
  
−
[23:27] schmidtm:why don't we just create a new one?
+
Aug 26 00:33:29 aliscafo_ paveljanik: yes
  
−
[23:28] shaunmcdonald:it would contain all the main problems that are reported
+
Aug 26 00:33:36 obr no shell scripts in between ?
  
−
[23:28] shaunmcdonald:and have them categoried
+
Aug 26 00:33:38 ChristianL so +1 for the backing window
  
−
[23:28] shaunmcdonald:it would be all HTML
+
Aug 26 00:33:38 ericb2 ChristianL: because of event loop need main threads ?
  
−
[23:28] ericb2:schmidtm: I can. This is a 5 minutes job only. But I need Martin agreement, at least.
+
Aug 26 00:33:49 paveljanik aliscafo_: can you tell us the status of your work on native controls?
  
−
[23:29] schmidtm:ericb2: Martin who?
+
Aug 26 00:34:07 ChristianL ericb2: no but as I understood there can only be one executable assigned to an *.app
  
−
[23:29] shaunmcdonald:I think the first page with the categories should have some images
+
Aug 26 00:34:08 paveljanik obr: yes, we can't have them.
  
−
[23:29] shaunmcdonald:one for each category
+
Aug 26 00:34:09 * obr thinks of all the stuff soffice.sh is doing
  
−
[23:29] ericb2:schmidtm: Martin Hollmichel
+
Aug 26 00:34:22 paveljanik obr: very simple:
  
−
[23:29] shaunmcdonald:good or bad idea?
+
Aug 26 00:34:31 paveljanik main() {
  
−
[23:29] schmidtm:ericb2: and he's from Sun?
+
Aug 26 00:34:39 paveljanik #ifdef MACOSX
  
−
[23:29] ericb2:schmidtm: yes :-)
+
Aug 26 00:34:55 paveljanik system("soffice.sh")
  
−
[23:30] paveljanik:I have to go to bed now,see you tomorrow.
+
Aug 26 00:34:56 aliscafo_ paveljanik: well I am implementing the simple controls first because I noticed that controls such as scrollbars, spinboxes will
 +
take more time, so my goal is to finish the simiple ones first correct all the bugs and then look at the more difficult ones
  
−
[23:30] ericb2:paveljanik: good night
+
Aug 26 00:34:58 paveljanik #endif
  
−
[23:30] schmidtm:ericb2: and you have tried this before and failed?
+
Aug 26 00:35:03 paveljanik ... almost that simple...
  
−
[23:30] ericb2:schmidtm: to be precise, we asked Louis Suarez Potts, and .. don't remember. It was refused.
+
Aug 26 00:35:16 * plum (n=plum@bob75-1-81-57-229-223.fbx.proxad.net) has joined #ooo_macport
  
−
[23:31] ericb2:schmidtm: I'm co lead of Porting with Martin, and I cant decide alone
+
Aug 26 00:35:23 paveljanik aliscafo_: good idea!
  
−
[23:31] schmidtm:ericb2: although I'm on vacation I'll call Michael on Monday and convince him that we have to have a separate list.
+
Aug 26 00:35:38 obr paveljanik: and events will still work ?
  
−
[23:31] ericb2:schmidtm: I can ask him, but it could be more efficient one discuss with him directly
+
Aug 26 00:35:41 * zaudragon (n=takumi@growl/zaudragon) has joined #ooo_macport
  
−
[23:31] ericb2:schmidtm: please do :-)
+
Aug 26 00:36:04 plum hello eric <===> tatouille
  
−
[23:32] shaunmcdonald:lately there has been a move to push all the mac user questions to users@openoffice.org
+
Aug 26 00:36:10 ChristianL paveljanik: that does not work, some environment stuff must be set before soffice.bin can run
  
−
[23:32] ChristianL:I don't think Martin has a problem with that
+
Aug 26 00:36:11 ericb2 plum: hello
  
−
[23:32] ericb2:ChristianL:† me neither
+
Aug 26 00:36:11 paveljanik obr: only the binary named the same as the Execname in the Ino.plist will receive events.
  
−
[23:32] shaunmcdonald:and keep mac@porting.openoffice.org just for development
+
Aug 26 00:36:15 * zaudragon (n=takumi@growl/zaudragon) has left #ooo_macport
  
−
[23:33] ChristianL:but question is, do we really need a mac users list? all other plattforms also use users@ooo ?
+
Aug 26 00:36:31 plum i check your post on macg?
  
−
[23:33] schmidtm:ChristianL: you're in HH, are you?
+
Aug 26 00:36:50 paveljanik ChristianL: yes, we have to modify our startup procedure a bit.
  
−
[23:33] ChristianL:schmidtm: Yes
+
Aug 26 00:36:57 * The_Tick (n=the_tick@growl/the-tick) has joined #ooo_macport
  
−
[23:33] maho:i think users@ooo is enough.
+
Aug 26 00:37:08 ericb2 plum: yes, thank's. We started some times ago, but the log will be available just after
  
−
[23:33] shaunmcdonald:I'm scared to subscribe to users@ooo, due to the very high level of messages
+
Aug 26 00:37:28 plum ok thanks
  
−
[23:34] maho:LOL
+
Aug 26 00:37:40 paveljanik ChristianL: I think there is not many interesting stuff needed, especially on Mac OS X...
  
−
[23:34] schmidtm:we all agree that the current mixture on the mac list is a bad thing.
+
Aug 26 00:37:40 The_Tick plum: please don't spam channels :)
  
−
[23:34] shaunmcdonald:otherwise I would join
+
Aug 26 00:37:55 ericb2 plum: meeting started 23:00 french hour
  
−
[23:34] ChristianL:schmidtm: yes
+
Aug 26 00:38:29 paveljanik ... ./droplet now works, so... ;-)
  
−
[23:34] shaunmcdonald:schmidtm: yes
+
Aug 26 00:38:30 plum yes i know i'm in late i just live my job
  
−
[23:34] maho:then navigate to users@oo.o
+
Aug 26 00:38:36 ericb2 paveljanik: hmm :-)
  
−
[23:34] schmidtm:Since we can not stop people to post on the existing list, i fear we have to create a new one, OK?
+
Aug 26 00:39:00 aliscafo_ paveljanik: also we need to find a way to handle progress bar with the nativewidget file, I don't see a way to do it right now
  
−
[23:34] ericb2:to vomplete, when I rad other projects, they are zillions of useless lists ...
+
Aug 26 00:39:11 paveljanik obr: I have tried to use relative path in info.plist, but it does not work, only the app name must be there.
  
−
[23:34] ericb2:complete
+
Aug 26 00:39:43 paveljanik aliscafo_: can you describe the problem to the mailing list?
  
−
[23:34] ericb2:s/rad/read/
+
Aug 26 00:39:53 paveljanik maybe we can find some solution.
  
−
[23:35] schmidtm:ericb2: you want to limit the *existing* list to development questions?
+
Aug 26 00:39:54 aliscafo_ paveljanik: i will
  
−
[23:35] ericb2:schmidtm: I myself am ok. I'll ask Martin (or someone else)
+
Aug 26 00:39:58 obr paveljanik: o.k., thanks for trying.
  
−
[23:35] shaunmcdonald:it can be a bad thing of having too many lists
+
Aug 26 00:40:09 ChristianL paveljanik: then we must get rid of the program directory
  
−
[23:36] shaunmcdonald:over the past few weeks there has been a decrease in the number of user questions to the mac list
+
Aug 26 00:40:48 paveljanik obr: what I do right now is to move the directory structure one level up, so that program/soffice.bin becomes droplet and
 +
that's all. the bundle is a bit of a mess, but it works.
  
−
[23:36] ericb2:shaunmcdonald: currently, we have not too much lists
+
Aug 26 00:41:04 paveljanik ChristianL: I think too many places reference it...
  
−
[23:36] schmidtm:I want to have as few lists as possible, but how can we stop people from posting?
+
Aug 26 00:41:34 ericb2 paveljanik: maybe
  
−
[23:36] maho:just don't reply ;)
+
Aug 26 00:41:35 plum paveljanik : mainBundle = CFBundleGetMainBundle();
  
−
[23:37] ericb2:maho: he he
+
Aug 26 00:41:51 paveljanik we have to try what happens if we replace our current droplet with main(){exec something else} etc.
  
−
[23:37] shaunmcdonald:maho: and then get frustrated users
+
Aug 26 00:42:29 paveljanik plum: ?
  
−
[23:37] maho:will go away[23:37]shaunmcdonald:better support pages?
+
Aug 26 00:42:38 obr paveljanik: I am still debugging an afp problem saving new files - will get to the bundle later
  
−
[23:37] ChristianL:better faq?[23:37]ericb2:better application ?
+
Aug 26 00:43:42 ChristianL what about havving a writer.app, calc.app, impress.app, draw.app? how can they share stuff?
  
−
[23:38] ericb2:† † † † † † † :-) † † † † †
+
Aug 26 00:43:59 The_Tick a framework
  
−
[23:38] maho:right. better support page and faq will also reduce the number of frustrated persons
+
Aug 26 00:44:14 The_Tick throw all your code into a framework
  
−
[23:38] shaunmcdonald:time to get my head into gear then
+
Aug 26 00:44:22 The_Tick and then just include that framework in each
  
−
[23:38] maho:non transparency, no information, then people got frustrated
+
Aug 26 00:44:26 plum paveljanik : "then we must get rid of the program directory"
  
−
[23:38] schmidtm:so we have two options: a) get people off the existing list b) create a new developer list. Please vote now!
+
Aug 26 00:44:46 shaunmcdonald The_Tick: and then a .pkg instead of a drag and drop install
  
−
[23:38] ChristianL:my humble opinion is sending them to users@ooo is ok, but only if there are some people that answer mac questions
+
Aug 26 00:44:47 The_Tick it's how we have folks utilize the growl framework
  
−
[23:39] shaunmcdonald:ChristianL: if those at users can't anwser they get sent to mac@porting at the moment
+
Aug 26 00:44:51 The_Tick shaunmcdonald: no
  
−
[23:39] maho:If good FAQ is available, then see FAQ will really help
+
Aug 26 00:44:58 The_Tick shaunmcdonald: for instance
  
−
[23:40] ericb2:maho: you don't think the HowTo is a good FAQ ?
+
Aug 26 00:45:03 The_Tick yahoo messenger beta
  
−
[23:40] schmidtm:maho: you need to have a list to support users besides a FAQ.
+
Aug 26 00:45:09 The_Tick it utilizes Growl.framework
  
−
[23:40] shaunmcdonald:ericb2: I think it is too difficult to access
+
Aug 26 00:45:17 The_Tick by bundling it inside of the application
  
−
[23:40] shaunmcdonald:ericb2: I think there should also be a HTML version
+
Aug 26 00:45:45 The_Tick folks do this as well with Sparkle/Sparkle+
  
−
[23:40] ericb2:what if somebody write a web page with HowTo contents ?
+
Aug 26 00:46:00 paveljanik plum: program is a directory in our structure. many part of the current codebase depend on it. I do not want to fight with all
 +
instances of "program" in whole OOo codebase ;-)
  
−
[23:41] maho:ericb2 : very nice
+
Aug 26 00:46:01 The_Tick and other things
  
−
[23:41] ericb2:this way, we could have one page per locale ? And create all locale s we need
+
Aug 26 00:46:24 shaunmcdonald The_Tick: ah I see
  
−
[23:41] ericb2:the difficulty is to control the content
+
Aug 26 00:46:31 The_Tick look on the growl developer docs
  
−
[23:41] shaunmcdonald:ericb2: easy where's original doc? Just save as HTML plus tidy up
+
Aug 26 00:46:33 The_Tick cocoa ones
  
−
[23:42] ericb2:shaunmcdonald: http://porting.openoffice.org/mac
+
Aug 26 00:46:38 The_Tick more towards the bottom
  
−
[23:42] maho:ericb2 : right. we FreeBSD do so.
+
Aug 26 00:46:51 The_Tick gives somewhat verbose instructions on how to do it
  
−
[23:42] ericb2:shaunmcdonald: currently french, german and english-US
+
Aug 26 00:46:57 The_Tick well, include it
  
−
[23:42] ericb2:shaunmcdonald: I know polish and maybe chinese is on the air
+
Aug 26 00:46:59 ChristianL I would prefer one app per office application, better than always starting writer first and is also more iWork like
  
−
[23:42] shaunmcdonald:ericb2: I know, though they are PDFs
+
Aug 26 00:47:13 The_Tick ChristianL: that's also the mac way
  
−
[23:42] ericb2:shaunmcdonald: I have the sources ;-)
+
Aug 26 00:47:43 The_Tick shipping a large application that does just everything sucks
  
−
[23:42] maho:Oh some chinese uses MacOSX version of OOo!
+
Aug 26 00:47:52 paveljanik yup, but we have to first remove X11 completely ;-)
  
−
[23:43] shaunmcdonald:ericb2: At one point in time (when I wasn't online at home) I hated PDFs because they were so slow.
+
Aug 26 00:47:55 The_Tick and you'll get a lot of flack from mac users who won't understand stuff
  
−
[23:43] schmidtm:guys, don't we loose the focus here. Yes we need to have a decent FAQ, but also dedicated lists.
+
Aug 26 00:47:58 ChristianL so could someone use the current native build and set up something like that by hand to test?
  
−
[23:43] ericb2:maho: if remember correctly, one chinese people asked some times ago
+
Aug 26 00:48:00 The_Tick paveljanik: heh
  
−
[23:43] maho:hm.
+
Aug 26 00:48:01 The_Tick honestly
  
−
[23:44] shaunmcdonald:can someone please change the typo on the above link 'Mai' -> 'May'?
+
Aug 26 00:48:16 The_Tick just start from scratch with cocoa
  
−
[23:44] maho:you can, very soon.
+
Aug 26 00:48:19 The_Tick might be easier :)
  
−
[23:44] ericb2:shaunmcdonald: you ?
+
Aug 26 00:48:30 shaunmcdonald The_Tick: would we use just one framework for all the apps?
  
−
[23:44] ericb2:shaunmcdonald: soon
+
Aug 26 00:48:34 paveljanik The_Tick: hmm, when none knows ObjC? ;-)
  
−
[23:44] shaunmcdonald:ericb2: Just looking up on how to create a ssh key
+
Aug 26 00:48:36 The_Tick shaunmcdonald: or many
  
−
[23:45] shaunmcdonald:to upload to issue
+
Aug 26 00:48:39 paveljanik nonsense...
  
−
[23:45] ericb2:shaunmcdonald: ask† louis on #openoffice.org
+
Aug 26 00:48:41 ericb2 I can provide both Intel and  PowerPC build
  
−
[23:45] ericb2:shaunmcdonald: a complete documentation is available. I myself understood ...so† ;-
+
Aug 26 00:48:46 The_Tick paveljanik: http://brok3n.org/cocoa.html
  
−
[23:46] maho:† † † http://ja.openoffice.org/documents/develop/cvs_unix.html † †
+
Aug 26 00:48:52 The_Tick time to learn?
  
−
[23:46] shaunmcdonald:ericb2: I think I have found something to help http://www.bombich.com/mactips/rsync.html
+
Aug 26 00:49:03 The_Tick the java bridge is deprecated
  
−
[23:46] maho:% ssh-keygen -d
+
Aug 26 00:49:09 The_Tick they aren't going to improve it
  
−
[23:46] ericb2:what do we decide about lists ?
+
Aug 26 00:49:21 The_Tick we're using it in adium
  
−
[23:46] maho:-1
+
Aug 26 00:49:22 paveljanik The_Tick: Java bridge?
  
−
[23:46] schmidtm:who is for a new list?
+
Aug 26 00:49:32 paveljanik The_Tick: can you pleas eintroduce yourself?
  
−
[23:47] ericb2:+1 for me
+
Aug 26 00:49:34 The_Tick my understanding is what you guys are porting is in java
  
−
[23:47] shaunmcdonald:+1
+
Aug 26 00:49:36 The_Tick oh hi
  
−
[23:47] schmidtm:+1
+
Aug 26 00:49:41 paveljanik The_Tick: no.
  
−
[23:47] obr:-1
+
Aug 26 00:49:45 The_Tick bah :)
  
−
[23:48] maho:pjanik ...
+
Aug 26 00:49:52 The_Tick ignore that then, heh
  
−
[23:48] maho:paveljanik ...
+
Aug 26 00:50:11 ericb2 The_Tick: no Xlib, no Java, only carbon currently
  
−
[23:48] obr:already asleep ;-)
+
Aug 26 00:50:22 The_Tick ah, then that might not be too bad
  
−
[23:49] schmidtm:he once mentioned that he's annoyed about the user questions ...
+
Aug 26 00:50:25 ericb2 The_Tick: just some parts are using Java
  
−
[23:49] schmidtm:mixed up with the development related stuff.
+
Aug 26 00:51:01 paveljanik we somewhat are going OT regarding our agenda for today.
  
−
[23:50] ChristianL:+1 for a developer only list, undecided about what to do with the users
+
Aug 26 00:51:01 plum paveljanik : :) grep -R
  
−
[23:50] ericb2:shaunmcdonald: http://website.openoffice.org/support/en/howtos/1.html
+
Aug 26 00:51:05 paveljanik well, tomorrow ;-)
  
−
[23:51] shaunmcdonald:ericb2: generated key
+
Aug 26 00:51:29 The_Tick someone asked how to share code between them all paveljanik
  
−
[23:51] aliscafo:+1 if enough people are going to be subscribed to answer the questions
+
Aug 26 00:51:30 paveljanik plum: ?
  
−
[23:51] schmidtm:ChristianL: send them to users for general questions and suport the mac stuff on the existing one.
+
Aug 26 00:51:33 The_Tick I fail to see how that's offtopic
  
−
[23:51] ericb2:FYI : a list can be created and removed
+
Aug 26 00:51:53 ChristianL a good hint indead, but we should look over the details later
  
−
[23:51] shaunmcdonald:schmidtm: that is my second choice
+
Aug 26 00:51:56 The_Tick anyhow, I'll be quiet
  
−
[23:52] ericb2:IMHO, I think we shouldn't decide today, and report to next meeting the decision.
+
Aug 26 00:52:54 ericb2 The_Tick: we have meeting every week, and we sure can add the point to the next agenda
  
−
[23:52] schmidtm:shaunmcdonald: sorry i didn't understand that.
+
Aug 26 00:53:09 The_Tick sounds so counterproductive :)
  
−
[23:52] maho:ericb2: I agree
+
Aug 26 00:53:23 ChristianL ericb2: Solving a problem should not be a meeting point
  
−
[23:53] shaunmcdonald:schmidtm: if we don't have second list, then send to users@ooo
+
Aug 26 00:53:38 ericb2 ChristianL: so let's solve it now
  
−
[23:53] ericb2:next point ?
+
Aug 26 00:53:42 ChristianL to make this on topic, do we all agree that an installation should be mac like by having an app for each office application?
  
−
[23:53] shaunmcdonald:ericb2: which is?
+
Aug 26 00:53:54 paveljanik but we can meet here and solve it together :-)
  
−
[23:53] schmidtm:ericb2: what is our decision now?
+
Aug 26 00:53:57 ericb2 ChristianL: this does not bother me
  
−
[23:54] ericb2:next points are :† decide next meeting date, and Maho's question about QA
+
Aug 26 00:53:57 paveljanik yes.
  
−
[23:54] ericb2:schmidtm: I do not decide, I just propose to delay the decision
+
Aug 26 00:54:02 ChristianL ericb2: no, I need at least 4 hours of sleep, so not solving all problems today. besides installing is prio 3 at least
  
−
[23:54] maho:I'm okay for next week, same time.
+
Aug 26 00:54:14 The_Tick pkg will get you guys a lot of bad response, fyi
  
−
[23:54] maho:Okay,
+
Aug 26 00:54:19 The_Tick we did that with growl :(
  
−
[23:54] shaunmcdonald:me too usually
+
Aug 26 00:54:41 paveljanik yes, this is what I think so.
  
−
[23:55] schmidtm:ericb2: OK, postpone.
+
Aug 26 00:54:42 shaunmcdonald installation method is something that I wanted to bring up
  
−
[23:55] schmidtm:OK for me
+
Aug 26 00:54:58 The_Tick shaunmcdonald: what we do in adium works really well
  
−
[23:55] maho:Currently QA process of MacOSX is not very well established,
+
Aug 26 00:55:38 shaunmcdonald there is a bit of a conflict, some issues say use pkg, others say disc image drag and drop
  
−
[23:55] shaunmcdonald:I now have TCM access
+
Aug 26 00:55:49 shaunmcdonald The_Tick: sorry I don't use adium
  
−
[23:55] maho:...
+
Aug 26 00:55:54 The_Tick no worries
  
−
[23:56] maho:but James is not here...
+
Aug 26 00:55:57 The_Tick a dmg
  
−
[23:56] shaunmcdonald:not sure what to do in there though
+
Aug 26 00:56:02 The_Tick with a symlink to /applications
  
−
[23:56] shaunmcdonald:maho: he recently replied to some email
+
Aug 26 00:56:30 The_Tick it's not so good for say shareware applications, but for oss, it solves the problem of ease of install
  
−
[23:56] maho:I'd like to write a wiki to make things
+
Aug 26 00:56:30 plum paveljanik : i explore src and answer u in few minutes
  
−
[23:56] maho:about the QA process of MacOSX packages
+
Aug 26 00:56:31 shaunmcdonald The_Tick: same as EyeTV and an increasing number of other apps
  
−
[23:57] ericb2:maho: good idea. What I can tell you is :
+
Aug 26 00:56:35 ericb2 The_Tick: good  
  
−
[23:57] maho:well
+
Aug 26 00:56:35 The_Tick yep
  
−
[23:57] ericb2:french QA Team is important
+
Aug 26 00:56:53 The_Tick oh, someone wanted me to intro myself
  
−
[23:57] maho:† † † † † † † :) † † † † †
+
Aug 26 00:56:57 The_Tick <- Growl Project Lead
  
−
[23:57] ericb2:and growing
+
Aug 26 00:57:03 The_Tick and Adium Project Manager
  
−
[23:57] maho:right, I know it.
+
Aug 26 00:57:09 ChristianL an office package is to a standard application what an oil tanker is to a fishing boat, just to remind everyone
  
−
[23:57] maho:oh that's very nice to hear
+
Aug 26 00:57:15 plum The_Tick : :)
  
−
[23:58] ericb2:and Sophie told me Mac OS x is treated like other versions
+
Aug 26 00:57:40 shaunmcdonald We will need to add symlink to /Applications to the dmg
  
−
[23:58] shaunmcdonald:what mime type do I use for my public key?
+
Aug 26 00:57:42 The_Tick shaunmcdonald: we had a bunch of people send in "how do I install adium?!" emails
  
−
[23:58] ericb2:Sophie Gautier
+
Aug 26 00:57:48 The_Tick and after that
  
−
[23:58] maho:Alexis Pigeon had conducted 2.0.3 QA of FR MacOSX ppc/intel
+
Aug 26 00:57:52 The_Tick no more :)
  
−
[23:58] maho:too
+
Aug 26 00:58:13 The_Tick shaunmcdonald: along with changing dmg artwork to be sorta intuitive about it
  
−
[23:58] maho:I think I learn a lot from fr community
+
Aug 26 00:58:23 shaunmcdonald The_Tick: does adium work on OS 10.3?
  
−
[23:58] ericb2:maho: yes, and I invite you to discuss with them, including maybe James to decide what do
+
Aug 26 00:58:28 The_Tick ya
  
−
[23:59] maho:another point,
+
Aug 26 00:58:37 plum The_Tick: stop adium please
  
−
[23:59] maho:we don't have many developers, so if James finds a showstopper,
+
Aug 26 00:58:43 shaunmcdonald The_Tick: even the background of the dmg?
  
−
[23:59] maho:it can take a very long time to fix. for example, 2.0.2 en-US release
+
Aug 26 00:58:44 The_Tick the dmg will mount and you'll see what I'm talking about at least :)
  
−
[00:00] maho:this is serious problem. as James is sincerely doing QA, he will find more showstoppers,
+
Aug 26 00:58:48 The_Tick shaunmcdonald: yea
  
−
[00:00] maho:but no one can fix them in a short time frame.
+
Aug 26 00:58:49 ericb2 The_Tick: even the symlink ?
  
−
[00:01] maho:This is also bad for marketing point of view.
+
Aug 26 00:58:53 The_Tick ericb2: ya
  
−
[00:01] ericb2:maho: I understand. Was only Mac OS X version concerned or other were ?
+
Aug 26 00:58:55 The_Tick sec
  
−
[00:02] maho:Yes, MacOSX version only. No QA person in FreeBSD community ;)
+
Aug 26 00:59:02 The_Tick you guys have svn clients?
  
−
[00:02] ericb2:maho: did you contact Joerg Sievers ?
+
Aug 26 00:59:03 ericb2 The_Tick: interesting
  
−
[00:02] maho:No
+
Aug 26 00:59:12 shaunmcdonald The_Tick: great you will be of some help then
  
−
[00:02] ericb2:maho: I'm sure he will help
+
Aug 26 00:59:14 paveljanik ericb2: back to the agenda, please...
  
−
[00:03] maho:Okay I'll ask him
+
Aug 26 00:59:46 shaunmcdonald at point 4?
  
−
[00:03] ericb2:maho: this is a very strict QA man
+
Aug 26 00:59:53 paveljanik meetings longer than 1:30 are not effective.
  
−
[00:03] maho:Hehe
+
Aug 26 01:00:03 ericb2 Roadmap now
  
−
[00:03] ericb2:maho: important, to progress ;-)
+
Aug 26 01:00:11 * The_Tick (n=the_tick@growl/the-tick) has left #ooo_macport
  
−
[00:03] maho:So I'd like to ask you ericb2,
+
Aug 26 01:00:33 ericb2 paveljanik: I'm glad to see new devs, maybe we can make exceptions for them ?
  
−
[00:04] maho:which attitude is correct, if 2.0.4 is released we will immedately release MacOSX versions as well
+
Aug 26 01:00:57 ericb2 paveljanik: they sure can bring new blood
  
−
[00:04] maho:with some messages like there are known problems here
+
Aug 26 01:00:59 shaunmcdonald ericb2: need to define "fix OpenOffice.org launch"
  
−
[00:04] maho:or stop the release
+
Aug 26 01:01:05 * paveljanik would like to see new devs, with signed JCA and many codelines waiting for commit ;-)
  
−
[00:04] maho:until it will be fixed
+
Aug 26 01:01:25 ericb2 paveljanik: adium is ab big project
  
−
[00:05]ericb2:other can answer too ;-)
+
Aug 26 01:01:29 plum ericb2 : yep it's me who ask on growl channel
  
−
[00:05] ericb2:maho: you mean m1 code is available
+
Aug 26 01:01:38 plum ed
  
−
[00:05] ericb2:maho: and a stopper is knwon
+
Aug 26 01:02:20 plum if someone was interrested in OoO mac port
  
−
[00:05] ericb2:known
+
Aug 26 01:02:29 ericb2 paveljanik: and I never saw anyone come with already signed JCA ;-)
  
−
[00:05] maho:okay
+
Aug 26 01:02:52 ericb2 plum: I think you are in France, right ?
  
−
[00:05] shaunmcdonald:I know other project/commercial companies make a secondary release of a particular version
+
Aug 26 01:03:21 paveljanik ok, what else can we finish from our roadmap in next 5?
  
−
[00:05] shaunmcdonald: maybe we could too if there are bugs
+
Aug 26 01:03:22 plum ericb2 : yep for know , i leave for CA in febuary
  
−
[00:05] shaunmcdonald: they just have a new build number
+
Aug 26 01:03:25 paveljanik ... seconds?
  
−
[00:06] ericb2: maho: just my opinio. Wait RC3 cannot bebad ;-)
+
Aug 26 01:03:28 ChristianL (that adium x installer dmg with the symlink is cool, btw. but no reason not to copy it :)
  
−
[00:06] ericb2: s/opinio/opinion/
+
Aug 26 01:03:55 spiral 'bye
  
−
[00:06] maho: ericb2 : mh will release only one RC
+
Aug 26 01:03:55 * spiral (n=spiral@laf31-2-82-224-249-43.fbx.proxad.net) has left #ooo_macport ("Bye")
  
−
[00:07] ericb2: maho: Ah, ok. I was not aware.
+
Aug 26 01:04:41 paveljanik ChristianL: I traced the non working KEYINPUT and KEYUP events to Application::HandleKey and mpKeyListeners beign NULL. If
 +
you can continue :-)
  
−
[00:08] ericb2: maho: so previous versions are "developper snapshots" ?
+
Aug 26 01:05:02 ericb2 plum: I think we should contiue to discuss tomorrow, or .. just contact me. What you propose is very interesting, and our meeting
 +
started really long time ago, sorry
  
−
[00:08] maho: ericb2 : sorry?
+
Aug 26 01:05:31 ChristianL so what is open for the meeting to discuss? We can fix individual issues all week :)
  
−
[00:08] maho: there are some released version as well
+
Aug 26 01:05:39 ericb2 Next point is the Roadmap
  
−
[00:08] maho : they are uploaded at the master site (stardiv.de)
+
Aug 26 01:06:04 plum paveljanik : instead this stupid droplet / it's difficult in IRC but i try
  
−
[00:09] ericb2: maho: and QA starts with them ?
+
Aug 26 01:06:22 plum Resources/Core/help
  
−
[00:09] maho: no, at Good-Day
+
Aug 26 01:06:37 plum Resources/Core/presets
  
−
[00:09] maho: process is following
+
Aug 26 01:06:59 plum Resources/Core/program
  
−
[00:10] maho: 1) build 2) upload to Good-Day 3) QA 4) IssueTracker for upload request 5) release
+
Aug 26 01:07:01 plum ...
  
−
[00:10] obr: ericb2: Having up to 7 "Release Candidates"  is a marketing issue
+
Aug 26 01:07:14 plum CFBundleExecutable
  
−
[00:11] ericb2: obr: sure
+
Aug 26 01:07:18 ChristianL ericb2: The question is, do we want to have a roadmap entry before having a working native OOo install set for users?
  
−
[00:12] obr: maho: I think this has to be a one by one decision - in general we should release along with the other platforms.
+
Aug 26 01:07:34 plum CFBundleRef mainBundle;
  
−
[00:12] ChristianL: I'm sorry, but there can be more than one RC
+
Aug 26 01:07:42 plum mainBundle = CFBundleGetMainBundle();
  
−
[00:12] ericb2: maho: what about wait one or two days other archs are out before to start the build ?
+
Aug 26 01:07:43 ericb2 ChristianL: yes, allprojects have
  
−
[00:12] obr: Mac specific bugs may lead to a later release, but this should be the exception IMHO
+
Aug 26 01:07:54 plum so you get your Bundle structure
  
−
[00:13] maho: No no, I'm talking about very slow QA of en-US version by James.
+
Aug 26 01:07:56 ChristianL ericb2: So which one is it?
  
−
[00:13] shaunmcdonald: I think the mac port is getting good publicity by releasing build very close to the other platforms
+
Aug 26 01:08:09 ericb2 http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/MacOSXPortMeetings#Draft_for_Mac_OS_X_native_port_Roadmap_and_Todolist
  
−
[00:13] maho: It seems we lost the focus...
+
Aug 26 01:08:20 paveljanik plum: we know how to do this in a project from scratch. But we have to do it in OOo as a whole.
  
−
[00:13] ericb2: shaunmcdonald: one or two days are harmless
+
Aug 26 01:08:22 ericb2 ChristianL: something very simple
  
−
[00:13] maho: Okay I'll send an Agenda again...
+
Aug 26 01:08:26 plum you can exec in a safe thread
  
−
[00:14] shaunmcdonald: ericb2: anything within a week is fine
+
Aug 26 01:08:57 plum the main OoO prog in Resources/Core/program
  
−
[00:14] maho: ericb2 : is it fine for you?
+
Aug 26 01:09:15 paveljanik plum: and how do we exec it so it receives events?
  
−
[00:14] obr: maho: my hope would be that this was a one time issue
+
Aug 26 01:09:28 plum yep
  
−
[00:14] ericb2: maho: James does a good work, and I'll ask him sooner if it takes too long time for the QA
+
Aug 26 01:09:46 plum your carbon apploop
  
−
[00:14] maho: ericb2: okay this is fine.
+
Aug 26 01:09:52 plum is aware
  
−
[00:15] ericb2: s/long/much/
+
Aug 26 01:09:59 paveljanik How? Yes. /me needs some sleep.
  
−
[00:15] maho: ericb2:  do not forget to ask him about his policy for P1 class issues.
+
Aug 26 01:10:02 plum if you don't fork
  
−
[00:15] shaunmcdonald : I should be able to help James on en_US, though personally prefer en_GB
+
Aug 26 01:10:13 ChristianL plum, can you mail that to the mac porting list?
  
−
[00:15] ericb2: maho: clear rules on wiki page will solve this easely
+
Aug 26 01:10:33 plum yep i think it will better
  
−
[00:15] maho: Right, that's why I stated to write a wiki for QA purpose
+
Aug 26 01:10:41 ericb2 plum: +1
  
−
[00:16] maho: in this IRC
+
Aug 26 01:10:45 ChristianL its 1am here and it is hard to follow two discussions
  
−
[00:16] ericb2: maho: very good idea
+
Aug 26 01:10:50 plum it's difficult to expain this line by line
  
−
[00:16] schmidtm : maho: great.
+
Aug 26 01:11:29 ChristianL ericb2: +1 to your roadmap
  
−
[00:16] maho: ericb2 : no new aganda to send again :) thanks.
+
Aug 26 01:11:35 ericb2 ChristianL: thank's :-)  
  
−
[00:16] maho: no need to send.
+
Aug 26 01:12:02 ChristianL ericb2: You should ad the point "playing invader on OOoCon" ;-)
  
−
[00:16] maho: i mean
+
Aug 26 01:12:19 paveljanik localization will work out of the box and if not, I'll fix it.
  
−
[00:16] shaunmcdonald: Can we have a page on the wiki called 'MacOSXPorting' that links to all Mac OS X porting stuff?
+
Aug 26 01:12:25 shaunmcdonald ericb2: some things need to be defined more e.g. fix ooo launch
  
−
[00:17] ericb2: shaunmcdonald:  are you volunteer ?
+
Aug 26 01:12:44 ericb2 ChristianL: I'll be very please if so !!
  
−
[00:17] ericb2:              ;-)          
+
Aug 26 01:12:49 ericb2 pleased
  
−
[00:17] schmidtm: shaunmcdonald: I created this category.
+
Aug 26 01:13:08 ChristianL is "fix ooo launch" the problem that we don't have a working install set for the native port?
  
−
[00:17] shaunmcdonald: ericb2: ok
+
Aug 26 01:13:19 ericb2 shaunmcdonald: exact. I search a better word. Do you have an idea ?
  
−
[00:17] shaunmcdonald: schmidtm: what do you mean by the category?
+
Aug 26 01:13:30 ericb2 ChristianL: exactly
  
−
[00:17] shaunmcdonald: schmidtm: i was a little confused by that
+
Aug 26 01:14:02 shaunmcdonald ericb2: say more about it
  
−
[00:17] schmidtm: shaunmcdonald: there you have all the pages.
+
Aug 26 01:14:09 ChristianL then that is exactly two parts. First find out how to do an ooo package. I think plum and also the tick gave great input. Second
 +
part is to implement it in scp2
  
−
[00:18] shaunmcdonald:schmidtm: example please
+
Aug 26 01:14:38 plum just for a concept bundle/ carbon / runner
  
−
[00:18] schmidtm:shaunmcdonald: give me a second ...
+
Aug 26 01:14:43 ChristianL shaunmcdonald: I think the short explanation is "having somthing the user can install to have a native OOo"
  
−
[00:19] schmidtm:shaunmcdonald: http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Category:Aqua
+
Aug 26 01:14:53 shaunmcdonald ericb2: it can be nice to have a few words for the main point, but you then need to be able to know exactly what is
 +
meant by it
  
−
[00:19] shaunmcdonald:schmidtm: that is aqua, not MAc OS X, which would contain X11 stuff too
+
Aug 26 01:15:28 ericb2 shaunmcdonald: not too much, it must stay "generic"
  
−
[00:19] ericb2:other points ?
+
Aug 26 01:15:30 plum i 've made a little launcher for wxpython/carbon
  
−
[00:20] shaunmcdonald:schmidtm: aqua would be a subset of macosx
+
Aug 26 01:15:33 paveljanik in the meantime, we can have shell script to be run on the installed directory from .dmg in Applications and prepare to the
 +
state "working" ;-)
  
−
[00:20] schmidtm:shaunmcdonald: sorry, i mixed it up. But you can do the same.
+
Aug 26 01:15:49 plum but it's the same logic
  
−
[00:20] schmidtm:shaunmcdonald: just go over all pages from the index and tag the ones you want.
+
Aug 26 01:15:59 shaunmcdonald ericb2: this can then lead to an implementation spec
  
−
[00:20] shaunmcdonald:schmidtm: ok, if I can't, I'll get back to you
+
Aug 26 01:15:59 plum http://plumber.gnu-darwin.org/shared.php?_w2pb=pub/projects/PyApplicationStub-1
  
−
[00:21] schmidtm:shaunmcdonald: you're welcome: schmidtm@sun.com
+
Aug 26 01:16:07 ericb2 shaunmcdonald: no please :-/
  
−
[00:21] ericb2:who will attend OOoCon2006 in Lyon ?
+
Aug 26 01:16:39 paveljanik this is why I think in the first step, we should make OOo look the same as current X11, maybe with Application link instead of
 +
icon...
  
−
[00:21] shaunmcdonald:schmidtm: :-)
+
Aug 26 01:16:52 plum to try and understand an app model
  
−
[00:21] maho:unfortunately I won't be there...
+
Aug 26 01:16:56 plum http://plumber.gnu-darwin.org/pub/projects/Archimade.zip
  
−
[00:22] ericb2:maho:  :-/
+
Aug 26 01:17:07 ChristianL paveljanik: that application link stuff the_tick told us does not solve our problem with multiple applications
  
−
[00:22] shaunmcdonald:ericb2: sorry no passport
+
Aug 26 01:17:17 ChristianL also not solving the problem that soffice.bin is not getting events
  
−
[00:22] schmidtm:ericb2: I try, even if i have to sleep under the bridge. Is it warm in Lyon?
+
Aug 26 01:17:44 plum ChristianL : /Library/OpenOffice/Core
  
−
[00:22] ericb2:schmidtm: I'll search something for you :-) Stay tuned
+
Aug 26 01:17:45 shaunmcdonald ericb2: maybe I'm trying to be too strong on the documentation
  
−
[00:22] ericb2:shaunmcdonald: what is your login ?
+
Aug 26 01:17:48 ChristianL but I think this is all solveable, but not today
  
−
[00:23] shaunmcdonald:schmidtm: If I can get get a passport I might join you
+
Aug 26 01:18:02 paveljanik ChristianL: yes, so lets first use our current approach, make it working and then we can investigate how to make it better.
  
−
[00:23] shaunmcdonald:ericb2: smsm1
+
Aug 26 01:18:04 paveljanik yep
  
−
[00:23] ericb2:shaunmcdonald: thanks
+
Aug 26 01:18:13 ChristianL shaunmcdonald: No, if we figured out how an OOo must be packed for installation, it is a good think to write a specification
  
−
[00:25] shaunmcdonald:I'm learning fast http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Category:MacOSX
+
Aug 26 01:18:13 paveljanik maybe today afternoon ;-)
  
−
[00:26] ericb2:other questions ?
+
Aug 26 01:19:06 ericb2 for the Roadmap no comments ?
  
−
[00:26] schmidtm:shaunmcdonald: ;-)
+
Aug 26 01:19:40 ChristianL 2 for it, 6 neutral I guess
  
−
[00:26] shaunmcdonald:ericb2: create separate wiki page for port meetings, please
+
Aug 26 01:20:26 ericb2 ok, I consider none objects
  
−
[00:26] shaunmcdonald:ericb2: I'll start it 'MacOSXPortMeetings'
+
Aug 26 01:20:37 ericb2 this will be our official Roadmap
  
−
[00:27] ericb2:shaunmcdonald: yes
+
Aug 26 01:20:50 ChristianL to sum the roadmap up, we like to present current state at OOoCon, have an alpha version in jannuary/february and then
 +
going for debug and more native features?
  
−
[00:27] schmidtm:ericb2: beautify the logs with the script i sent to you
+
Aug 26 01:20:51 shaunmcdonald ericb2: include it in static site?
  
−
[00:27] ericb2:is content developer enough ?
+
Aug 26 01:21:14 paveljanik ChristianL: +1 for this shortened version ;-)
  
−
[00:27] ericb2:oops
+
Aug 26 01:21:53 ericb2 shaunmcdonald: yes, please. and asa we find a better word replacing "launch" we will do the change
  
−
[00:27] ericb2:shaunmcdonald: is content developer rights enough ?
+
Aug 26 01:21:54 shaunmcdonald last static road map was Jan 2005
  
−
[00:27] shaunmcdonald:ericb2: for web page yes
+
Aug 26 01:22:12 shaunmcdonald it is easy to change
  
−
[00:27] ericb2:shaunmcdonald: if this is not correct, let me know
+
Aug 26 01:22:16 paveljanik we should set it to stone, go to sleep and work to make it happen later today ;-)
  
−
[00:28] shaunmcdonald:ericb2: as far as I'm aware it is enough
+
Aug 26 01:22:55 obr paveljanik: good plan
  
−
[00:28] shaunmcdonald:ericb2: for editing the web pages
+
Aug 26 01:23:01 ericb2 And next points ?
  
−
[00:28] shaunmcdonald:ericb2: thanks
+
Aug 26 01:23:08 ericb2 Point 5: X11 version
  
−
[00:28] ericb2:shaunmcdonald: you should have received a mail ;-)
+
Aug 26 01:23:08 ericb2 Point 6: our tinderbox status/usage
  
−
[00:28] ericb2:other questions ?
+
Aug 26 01:23:10 shaunmcdonald paveljanik: +1, if needed, we can change/update it later
  
−
[00:28] shaunmcdonald:ericb2: I see it on http://porting.openoffice.org/servlets/ProjectMembershipRequest
+
Aug 26 01:23:30 ericb2 Other points are postponed to next meeting
  
−
[00:29] ericb2:Next agenda ?
+
Aug 26 01:23:38 shaunmcdonald localisation of X11 no install?
  
−
[00:29] maho:no
+
Aug 26 01:24:02 paveljanik shaunmcdonald: we do not need it because we do not have localized fondu anyway...
  
−
[00:30] ericb2:next meeting will be at same hour, next week  25th of august
+
Aug 26 01:24:02 maho +1 for postpone
  
−
[00:30] maho:thanks ericb2
+
Aug 26 01:24:06 paveljanik english is enough.
  
−
[00:30] ericb2:maho: thank's to be present too :-)
+
Aug 26 01:24:06 ericb2 shaunmcdonald: it depends on when we stop to assume 10.3 compatibility
  
−
[00:30] ericb2:at all : see you !
+
Aug 26 01:24:11 paveljanik :-(((((((
  
−
[00:30] obr:good night / nice day everyone
+
Aug 26 01:24:34 shaunmcdonald ericb2: can you send me the code to check with 10.3, since I have 10.3 now
  
−
[00:30] obr left the chat room.
+
Aug 26 01:24:42 ericb2 shaunmcdonald: yes
  
−
[00:30] schmidtm:thanks,  CU guys
+
Aug 26 01:24:49 paveljanik do we have a short sample showing the problem under 10.3 and working under 10.4?
  
−
[00:31] maho:ericb2 : you are very kind person.
+
Aug 26 01:24:49 shaunmcdonald ericb2: thanks
  
−
[00:31] ericb2:good night all
+
Aug 26 01:25:08 ericb2 shaunmcdonald: please verify everything works with 10.3 and 10.4 (Intel and PowerPC)
  
−
[00:31] maho:thanks again
+
Aug 26 01:25:16 shaunmcdonald paveljanik: that's what I was looking for,
  
−
[00:31] maho:good night :) good morning from Japan
+
Aug 26 01:25:20 ericb2 shaunmcdonald: tomorrow morning
  
−
[00:31] maho left the chat room. ("Ex-Chat")
+
Aug 26 01:25:31 shaunmcdonald ericb2: will do may take a few days
  
−
[00:31] shaunmcdonald:night
+
Aug 26 01:25:42 ericb2 paveljanik: I got everything in a backup
  
−
[00:32] shaunmcdonald:http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/MacOSXPortMeetings started
+
Aug 26 01:25:46 paveljanik shaunmcdonald: Yes! We need AppleScript developer :-)
  
−
[00:44] schmidtm left the chat room.
+
Aug 26 01:26:09 shaunmcdonald paveljanik: I'm not that great, will try to learn though
  
−
[00:54] ChristianL:toolbar bitmaps with transparency working! :)
+
Aug 26 01:26:30 plum ericb2 : the rule : keep compatibility  for 2 release, i think you can lose the compatibility when 10.5 will be released
  
−
[00:56] fheckl left the chat room.
+
Aug 26 01:26:57 ericb2 plum: I verified : OopenOffice.org already works on Leopard preview
  
−
[00:57] aliscafo left the chat room.
+
Aug 26 01:27:16 shaunmcdonald ericb2: got verification from someone else too
  
−
[01:00] ChristianL left the chat room. ("User disconnected")
+
Aug 26 01:27:20 ChristianL so for a native release, our baseline can be 10.4? cool
 +
 
 +
Aug 26 01:27:32 ericb2 ChristianL: yes
 +
 
 +
Aug 26 01:27:40 ericb2 ChristianL: and maybe provide UB
 +
 
 +
Aug 26 01:27:51 maho ericb2 : really?
 +
 
 +
Aug 26 01:27:59 plum ericb2 yep but it's a preview not an official released , it's just to respect your users :)
 +
 
 +
Aug 26 01:28:12 ChristianL I think UB is a must, but maybe only when we are in beta state
 +
 
 +
Aug 26 01:28:22 shaunmcdonald there was some work on UB before and it was working
 +
 
 +
 
 +
Aug 26 01:28:39 shaunmcdonald can't remember which version though or who was working on it
 +
 
 +
 
 +
Aug 26 01:30:01 ericb2 maho: only one isue is remaining : cross compile the bridge if I'm not wrong
 +
 
 +
Aug 26 01:30:18 ericb2 ChristianL: I mant for X11 version
 +
 
 +
Aug 26 01:30:20 maho AFAIK: yes
 +
 
 +
Aug 26 01:30:21 ericb2 meant
 +
 
 +
Aug 26 01:30:55 * paveljanik has at least 13 patches to get universal binaries and is still not finished :-(
 +
 
 +
Aug 26 01:31:13 ChristianL on a second thouhgt, would people not prefer to download a shorter install set for theire plattform?
 +
 
 +
Aug 26 01:31:36 shaunmcdonald paveljanik: is there a cws/issue for it?
 +
 
 +
Aug 26 01:31:52 ericb2 plum: I meant a stable version as UB, not an alpha, nor even beta
 +
 
 +
Aug 26 01:32:36 paveljanik ChristianL: this is not for log: I think UB was invented because the computer literacy of Mac users is a bit below our acceptable
 +
computer literacy level... Mac is Mac. Do not care what is inside. Really.
 +
 
 +
Aug 26 01:32:42 shaunmcdonald ChristianL: I would prefer one download for both my PPC and Intel machine, rather than 2
 +
 
 +
Aug 26 01:33:14 paveljanik shaunmcdonald: not yet. There is one for configure stuff, yes.
 +
 
 +
Aug 26 01:33:33 plum shaunmcdonald : magic lipo :)
 +
 
 +
Aug 26 01:34:00 ericb2 paveljanik: distributed build ? marry Intel and PowerPC ? :-)
 +
 
 +
Aug 26 01:34:00 paveljanik plum: you come from the world of simple apps with simple release process ;-)
 +
 
 +
Aug 26 01:35:05 paveljanik sory guys, but 02:30 is my record time to be in OOo related meetings. My business record is 17:45 though... See you
 +
tomorrow.
 +
 
 +
Aug 26 01:35:15 ericb2 As last point, I think we should provide agenda more sooner in the week
 +
 
 +
Aug 26 01:35:31 ericb2 I'll post on mac@porting list for that
 +
 
 +
Aug 26 01:35:33 shaunmcdonald ericb2: agree
 +
 
 +
Aug 26 01:35:35 maho see you pjanik
 +
 
 +
Aug 26 01:35:48 maho +1 ericb2
 +
 
 +
Aug 26 01:36:00 ericb2 ok, time to sleep here too
 +
 
 +
Aug 26 01:36:22 obr +1
 +
 
 +
Aug 26 01:36:23 ChristianL me too
 +
 
 +
Aug 26 01:36:38 * obr has quit ()
 +
 
 +
Aug 26 01:36:39 ericb2 good night all
 +
 
 +
Aug 26 01:36:45 plum paveljanik : yep i know it's a big work, and porting to mac/carbon it's not easy , for many reasons , i know the problem
 +
 
 +
Aug 26 01:36:49 shaunmcdonald me too, and it's only 0:36
 +
 
 +
Aug 26 01:37:08 ericb2 maho: what time is it for you ?
 +
 
 +
Aug 26 01:37:16 maho 8:37 am, NP
 +
 
 +
Aug 26 01:37:22 ericb2 1:37 in France
 +
 
 +
Aug 26 01:37:22 plum ericb2 : ++
 +
 
 +
Aug 26 01:37:33 ericb2 plum: salut , et merci !
 +
 
 +
Aug 26 01:37:52 plum GMT only 23:37 :)
 +
 
 +
Aug 26 01:37:59 ChristianL btw, that adium had a nice picture in its crash reporter dialog. a parot going down in flames, maybe we can have something
 +
like that with a seagull :)
 +
 
 +
Aug 26 01:37:59 plum yep salut
 +
 
 +
Aug 26 01:38:07 shaunmcdonald BST just now
 +
 
 +
Aug 26 01:38:37 * maho has quit ("ChatZilla 0.9.61 [Mozilla rv:1.7.8/20050511]")
 +
 
 +
Aug 26 01:38:49 * shaunmcdonald has quit ()
 +
 
 +
Aug 26 01:38:56 * ChristianL (n=Christia@e177163149.adsl.alicedsl.de) has left #ooo_macport
 +
 
 +
Aug 26 01:38:56 * You have been marked as being away
 +
 
 +
Aug 26 01:48:54 plum ++
 +
 
 +
Aug 26 01:49:35 * plum has quit ("Leaving")
 +
 
 +
Aug 26 02:33:43 * aliscafo_ has quit ()
 +
 
 +
Aug 26 04:53:01 * aptiva (n=aptiva@dsl-34-198.ln.netheimur.is) has joined #ooo_macport
  
  
Line 1,213: Line 1,338:
  
 
Return to Previous meetings page : [[Previous_Mac_Meeting_logs]]
 
Return to Previous meetings page : [[Previous_Mac_Meeting_logs]]
 +
 +
Return to August 2006 : [[August_2006]]
 +
[[Category:MacOSX]]

Latest revision as of 20:28, 14 March 2010

Return to main page : MacOSXPortMeetings

Return to Previous meetings page : Previous_Mac_Meeting_logs

Return to August 2006 : August_2006


Aug 25 22:41:18 paveljanik ;-)

Aug 25 23:00:46 paveljanik 23:00...

Aug 25 23:02:16 paveljanik ericb2: ping

Aug 25 23:02:26 paveljanik can we start the meeting now?

Aug 25 23:02:33 ericb2 hi all :-)

Aug 25 23:02:41 ericb2 paveljanik: yes

Aug 25 23:03:29 ericb2 Let's go with the news

Aug 25 23:04:46 ericb2 is Shaun around ?

Aug 25 23:05:34 ericb2 apparently, his ssh key is ok, and Shaun can now help us for the website

Aug 25 23:05:47 ericb2 new devs ?

Aug 25 23:06:33 * ChristianL has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))

Aug 25 23:06:43 ericb2 The first point I want to discuss is aout last meeting

Aug 25 23:07:52 ericb2 Christian is really gone ?

Aug 25 23:07:53 ericb2 :)

Aug 25 23:08:22 * paveljanik suspect his invaders have eaten all his memory ;-)

Aug 25 23:08:38 aliscafo he has been terminated...

Aug 25 23:08:44 ericb2 As requested/expected last week, Shaun created new pages on the wiki, about aqua port

Aug 25 23:08:56 ericb2 about meeting contents too

Aug 25 23:09:26 ericb2 I asked for a vote too

Aug 25 23:09:53 ericb2 about create a specific mailing list for aqua developpement on porting

Aug 25 23:10:09 ericb2 and we were not enough to decide

Aug 25 23:10:55 ericb2 +1 fro me, shaun , schmidtm

Aug 25 23:11:11 ericb2 -1 from maho and obr

Aug 25 23:11:14 * shaunmcdonald (n=shaunmcd@62-31-11-174.cable.ubr02.edin.blueyonder.co.uk) has joined #ooo_macport

Aug 25 23:11:26 shaunmcdonald sorry i'm late

Aug 25 23:11:27 ericb2 ChristianL +1

Aug 25 23:11:44 ericb2 aliscafo: pleas remind me your vote ?

Aug 25 23:11:55 ericb2 aliscafo: was +1

Aug 25 23:11:58 paveljanik As I will be reading both and in mix them into one folder anyway, I do not care.

Aug 25 23:12:00 aliscafo ericb2: +1 yes

Aug 25 23:12:02 shaunmcdonald ericb2: what vote?

Aug 25 23:12:12 ericb2 shaunmcdonald: about aqua list

Aug 25 23:12:14 paveljanik so 0

Aug 25 23:12:20 ericb2 paveljanik: noticed

Aug 25 23:12:35 paveljanik But what I'd like to avoid is people jumping into learnign Carbon instead of fixing X11 bugs...

Aug 25 23:12:36 ericb2 none else will vote ?

Aug 25 23:12:56 shaunmcdonald ah, so setup a separete list just for aqua stuff?

Aug 25 23:13:02 ericb2 shaunmcdonald: yes

Aug 25 23:13:13 shaunmcdonald +1

Aug 25 23:13:32 aliscafo ericb2: sorry to bring that up again, but wouldn't a forum make more sense for user

Aug 25 23:14:00 aliscafo ericb2: i know it's not the most important issue, just my 2 cents

Aug 25 23:14:11 ericb2 aliscafo: our lists are available using gmane, if I'm not wrong

Aug 25 23:14:18 shaunmcdonald aliscafo: this is for developers, not users

Aug 25 23:14:39 shaunmcdonald ericb2: they have to be setup, not all are available

Aug 25 23:14:43 aliscafo shaunmcdonald: i thought it was for users sorry my bad

Aug 25 23:15:27 shaunmcdonald ericb2: there is also the archive on the ooo site within each project

Aug 25 23:15:36 ericb2 shaunmcdonald: yes

Aug 25 23:16:26 ericb2 I propsoe continue this point in misc, we have important point this evening, and create a new list is secondary.

Aug 25 23:16:30 ericb2 ok ?

Aug 25 23:16:31 * ChristianL (n=Christia@e177163149.adsl.alicedsl.de) has joined #ooo_macport

Aug 25 23:17:24 ericb2 another point in last meeting was : maho proposed to create some page about QA process on the wiki.

Aug 25 23:17:37 ericb2 anyone knows something ?

Aug 25 23:18:02 ericb2 that's all for the first point

Aug 25 23:18:10 ericb2 Point 2 : last changes in Aqua

Aug 25 23:18:18 ericb2 Pavel, Christian ?

Aug 25 23:19:00 ChristianL I'm still working on the raster operations. some bugfixes, we now can play invaders

Aug 25 23:19:18 paveljanik I added env. variables AQUA_* so we can easily test both VCL and native controls and menus.

Aug 25 23:19:40 paveljanik fixed menus, but unfortunately m182 broke them again, but it is not bug in aquavcl01 :-(

Aug 25 23:19:49 paveljanik UTF8 encoded menus fork OK.

Aug 25 23:19:59 paveljanik also menu items and menu activation events.

Aug 25 23:20:00 shaunmcdonald ericb2: and they worked in ericb2's build

Aug 25 23:20:09 ericb2 maybe we could start with : OpenOffice.org runs without X11 . Launch it is still not easy, but it works

Aug 25 23:20:26 paveljanik no, it starts ;-)

Aug 25 23:20:33 shaunmcdonald ericb2: even registration works :-)

Aug 25 23:20:41 paveljanik sometimes. Sometimes without splash etc.

Aug 25 23:20:43 paveljanik ;-)

Aug 25 23:20:48 ericb2 from my side, I can enter text in DRaw and writer

Aug 25 23:20:53 ChristianL but it does not run out of the box yet

Aug 25 23:20:53 shaunmcdonald ericb2: no need to disable it as you have said

Aug 25 23:21:09 paveljanik I can't fill info into firststartwizard contact page...

Aug 25 23:21:15 ericb2 shaunmcdonald: you're lucky. I never could make it work

Aug 25 23:21:40 ericb2 paveljanik: just the keyboard must enabled

Aug 25 23:21:47 ericb2 rawevents

Aug 25 23:21:53 shaunmcdonald ericb2: have to always disable the crash reporter though

Aug 25 23:21:55 ChristianL I think after fixing the event loop problem the next big think is fixing the text

Aug 25 23:22:02 paveljanik yep

Aug 25 23:22:35 paveljanik ChristianL: does keyboard work for you in invaders?

Aug 25 23:22:45 ericb2 ChristianL: what I observed is : hit one key and you got a complete line ( ~300 chars )

Aug 25 23:22:50 ChristianL paveljanik: I have not yet add your keyboard patch

Aug 25 23:23:08 paveljanik ChristianL: OK, I'll have a look at it in the night.

Aug 25 23:23:14 ChristianL ericb2: I don't mean the text input, I think that can be fixed easy. I mean the multiple line crashes and hangs

Aug 25 23:23:18 paveljanik what else regarding native port?

Aug 25 23:23:19 shaunmcdonald ericb2: I noticed that too, but it took a while to do it

Aug 25 23:23:19 ericb2 ChristianL: the text layout is something funky currently

Aug 25 23:24:10 ChristianL maybe I can motivate stephan a bit next week

Aug 25 23:24:12 ericb2 ChristianL: Oliver told me it's maybe because some pointer are not reinitialized in destructors

Aug 25 23:24:33 ericb2 ChristianL: multiline destroctor gave me pretty crashes, right

Aug 25 23:24:50 ericb2 destructor

Aug 25 23:25:15 ChristianL ericb2: Have you ever tried to valgrind? :)

Aug 25 23:25:24 * maho (n=chatzill@softbank219188128038.bbtec.net) has joined #ooo_macport

Aug 25 23:25:27 ericb2 ChristianL: no. Never used valgrind

Aug 25 23:25:35 ericb2 hello maho :-)

Aug 25 23:25:45 maho hi all , hi ericb2 ...

Aug 25 23:25:55 ericb2 For the one interested in some screeshts, I have some links

Aug 25 23:26:08 ericb2 Native controls (work in progress) :http://eric.bachard.free.fr/mac/aquavcl/screenshots/native_controls_part3/

Aug 25 23:26:08 ericb2 Native menus (work in progress) : native_menus.jpg

Aug 25 23:26:08 ericb2 Enter text (work in progress ): http://eric.bachard.free.fr/mac/aquavcl/screenshots/ats_24august/

Aug 25 23:26:42 ericb2 and if I can, I ave a list of "identified bugs"

Aug 25 23:27:02 ericb2 one important is redrawing

Aug 25 23:27:27 ericb2 when you modify something in a window, only resize the window redraws correctly the content

Aug 25 23:27:41 ericb2 there is some work for Tino IMO

Aug 25 23:27:44 paveljanik for me, even the first window is not correctly drawn - I have to resize.

Aug 25 23:27:51 ericb2 paveljanik: right

Aug 25 23:27:56 ChristianL me too

Aug 25 23:28:24 ericb2 paveljanik: and resize withut hit vcl part, else -> freeze

Aug 25 23:28:55 ericb2 ChristianL: is it possible to deactivate areas whre vcl controls are active ?

Aug 25 23:29:25 ericb2 e.g. : resizing_bug.jpg

Aug 25 23:29:29 ChristianL ericb2: Which control do you mean?

Aug 25 23:29:47 ericb2 ChristianL: the one on bottom right

Aug 25 23:30:05 ericb2 ChristianL: the grey rectangle under the Aqua control

Aug 25 23:30:11 ChristianL I don't know yet

Aug 25 23:30:27 paveljanik and where it crash? gdb output?

Aug 25 23:30:33 ericb2 ChristianL: to reproduce, try to resize in common area

Aug 25 23:30:39 ericb2 paveljanik: freeze

Aug 25 23:30:54 ericb2 paveljanik: probably an event loop issue

Aug 25 23:31:00 paveljanik so stop it and print the stack, cont, stop, print the stack to get some info

Aug 25 23:31:08 ChristianL paveljanik: I'm on it

Aug 25 23:31:14 paveljanik ChristianL: OK.

Aug 25 23:31:54 paveljanik I think in the near future, we will be in the status where we should start filing proper issues for our problems...

Aug 25 23:32:06 ericb2 something imortant would be to help us to debug. I have some basic knowledge, but I'm interested with tips using gdb

Aug 25 23:32:10 ericb2 important

Aug 25 23:32:28 ChristianL ericb2: I have no such rectangle

Aug 25 23:32:40 ericb2 for the one reading french, I have writen some docs about gdb

Aug 25 23:33:29 ericb2 ChristianL: did you set AQUA_NATIVE_CONTROLS to TRUE ?

Aug 25 23:33:58 ericb2 ChristianL: verified with both Tino's build and mine

Aug 25 23:35:32 ChristianL ericb2: No, even with native controls

Aug 25 23:35:45 ChristianL but we can discuss this another time I think

Aug 25 23:35:49 paveljanik I too do no have that rectangle in my build...

Aug 25 23:35:53 ericb2 ChristianL: I promise I didn't cheat with my screenshot :-)

Aug 25 23:36:44 ericb2 BTW, I can upload a PPC build on demand

Aug 25 23:37:16 ChristianL ericb2: If you do not cheat, where is your status bar?

Aug 25 23:38:03 ericb2 ChristianL: I cut the interesting part of the shot

Aug 25 23:38:26 ericb2 ChristianL: this is just the window, at startup

Aug 25 23:39:21 ericb2 ChristianL: let me 5 minutes to show you another interesting effect

Aug 25 23:39:31 paveljanik after the meeting please

Aug 25 23:39:37 ChristianL +1

Aug 25 23:40:57 paveljanik what next?

Aug 25 23:41:19 paveljanik aliscafo: what is the status of you rwork on controls?

Aug 25 23:41:24 paveljanik any other info?

Aug 25 23:41:26 ericb2 nothing java works

Aug 25 23:43:21 ericb2 aliscafo: ?

Aug 25 23:44:13 ericb2 ChristianL: for scrollbar, We discussed with Pierre, and he convinced me to just implement drawNativeControl()

Aug 25 23:44:23 ericb2 ChristianL: no ImplDrawNativeControl()

Aug 25 23:44:34 ericb2 ChristianL: just use default theme

Aug 25 23:45:34 ChristianL yes as I said, you do not have to do it exactly like windows

Aug 25 23:45:53 ericb2 ChristianL: I'm ok

Aug 25 23:46:14 ericb2 ChristianL: I'll try to add things progressively

Aug 25 23:46:25 paveljanik ericb2: so do you have some screenshots to show?

Aug 25 23:46:31 paveljanik or sample code?

Aug 25 23:46:33 paveljanik aliscafo: ?

Aug 25 23:46:40 ericb2 I know Pierre fixed other controls, but better wait a bit

Aug 25 23:46:48 ericb2 he's maybe not far

Aug 25 23:47:15 ericb2 paveljanik: just writen my plan on a paper, far from the screen

Aug 25 23:47:50 ericb2 paveljanik: implement getThemeHandle() e.g. is very important for other controls

Aug 25 23:48:48 ericb2 No other news from aqua port ?

Aug 25 23:49:13 ericb2 Point 3 ?

Aug 25 23:49:24 ericb2 Process of integrating changes from aquavcl01 into the main tree

Aug 25 23:49:29 paveljanik I'd like head aliscafo's status as well, but it can wait.

Aug 25 23:49:36 paveljanik ok, point 3.

Aug 25 23:49:41 * obr_ (n=olli@d018097.adsl.hansenet.de) has joined #ooo_macport

Aug 25 23:50:17 paveljanik as you know, my opinion on integration of aquavcl01 from the last meeting (it does not make sense now), I have prepared proposal for integration of some fixes from it...

Aug 25 23:50:23 paveljanik I sent it to the list

Aug 25 23:50:32 ericb2 Yes, the starting point is Pavel's mail

Aug 25 23:50:48 ericb2 one minute, i'll give the link to the archives

Aug 25 23:51:14 ericb2 http://porting.openoffice.org/servlets/ReadMsg?list=mac&msgNo=3384

Aug 25 23:52:10 paveljanik opinions?

Aug 25 23:52:17 ericb2 from my side I completely agree. We must have a strategy for aquavcl01 integration

Aug 25 23:52:28 ericb2 and mad64 experience helps

Aug 25 23:52:38 paveljanik this process was a large lesson from ooo64bit01, 02 etc...

Aug 25 23:52:42 paveljanik yes

Aug 25 23:52:50 maho question : we need to make some cwses other than aquavcl?

Aug 25 23:53:00 maho take aquavcl as head?

Aug 25 23:53:26 paveljanik maho: have you read my proposal?

Aug 25 23:53:40 maho briefly...

Aug 25 23:54:10 paveljanik yes, for us, we will work in aquavcl01 as a HEAD. Sometimes, some fixes from it will be duplicated in other cws, integrated and will be removed from aquavcl01 on resync.

Aug 25 23:54:58 maho I didn't understand `"upstream" - report them to other projects, fix the in small cwses'

Aug 25 23:55:03 maho in your e-mail.

Aug 25 23:55:18 paveljanik upstream for the fix in freetype for us is module gsl ;-)

Aug 25 23:55:44 maho okay, as you told just above, we need some double efforts ;)

Aug 25 23:56:02 maho for one issue, to cwses

Aug 25 23:56:04 maho to -> two

Aug 25 23:56:35 paveljanik maho: no. We can report it to other project and wait until they fix it properly in their own cwses ;-)

Aug 25 23:56:53 paveljanik the goal is to prevent LARGE QA overhead at the end of aquavcl01...

Aug 25 23:57:14 maho um,

Aug 25 23:57:17 maho hm

Aug 25 23:57:21 paveljanik but IMHO we should not spend too much time discussing stuff not directly connected with native port...

Aug 25 23:57:28 ericb2 Currently, 10 modules are currently cncerned by aquavcl01 : canvas dtrans extensions freetype padmin psprint scp2 sj2 solenv and vcl. the "core" of aquavcl01 is vcl

Aug 25 23:57:51 ericb2 any volunteer for this job ?

Aug 25 23:57:57 ChristianL Its to bad that we can't 'remove' projects from the cws

Aug 25 23:58:08 ericb2 ChristianL: yes

Aug 25 23:58:18 ericb2 ChristianL: all resync will continue to use them

Aug 25 23:58:21 paveljanik ChristianL: I have promise from heiner, that he will work on it ;-)

Aug 25 23:58:29 paveljanik cwsremove :-)

Aug 25 23:58:51 paveljanik before it, we can ask for manual module removal as we did with ooo64bit02.

Aug 25 23:58:58 ericb2 like cwsremove patch

Aug 25 23:59:01 maho Last question: do we need to fill out spec? (IMHO we don't need it this is a porting effort)

Aug 25 23:59:04 * ericb2 joking

Aug 25 23:59:15 ChristianL maho: no

Aug 25 23:59:37 maho okay

Aug 25 23:59:38 ericb2 maho: good question :-)

Aug 25 23:59:48 paveljanik at least not yet. I can imagine we will need new VCL functionality in the future...

Aug 26 00:00:02 ericb2 paveljanik: you mean new vcl ?

Aug 26 00:00:12 ericb2 :)

Aug 26 00:00:21 paveljanik ;-)

Aug 26 00:00:24 ChristianL paveljanik: But we should wait for new visible features until we finished aquavcl01

Aug 26 00:00:27 * obr has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))

Aug 26 00:00:38 ChristianL I mean visible features beside porting

Aug 26 00:00:40 paveljanik ChristianL: yes, of course. And maybe even aquavcl03...

Aug 26 00:01:24 * obr_ is now known as obr

Aug 26 00:01:47 paveljanik ericb2: we do not need volunteer. Read my mail to the end.

Aug 26 00:01:55 * ericb2 reads

Aug 26 00:02:20 paveljanik I'll bug you all to help me ;-)

Aug 26 00:02:25 ChristianL do we already have fixes for aqua only in other modules than vcl?

Aug 26 00:02:27 ericb2 paveljanik: was hidden under another window :-)

Aug 26 00:02:50 ericb2 ChristianL: solenv for the build

Aug 26 00:02:52 paveljanik ChristianL: only build fixes so far, non-code stuff.

Aug 26 00:03:08 ericb2 ChristianL: dtrans maybe

Aug 26 00:03:25 ChristianL I was thinking about moving all aqua stuff from vcl to a new project, so we don't need to ship two vcl libs if we support x11&native in one inst set

Aug 26 00:04:11 paveljanik ChristianL: uff, I somehow prefer the current setup. At least now :-)

Aug 26 00:04:17 paveljanik it was only an idea...

Aug 26 00:04:35 ericb2 We have to take care with the libs linked with Xlib

Aug 26 00:05:20 ChristianL technicaly there is no need that what is in vcl/aqua stays in the vcl lib. but just an idea for now

Aug 26 00:05:48 ericb2 ChristianL: we need the independant platform part ?

Aug 26 00:06:30 ChristianL we could have something like aquasal.dylib and x11sal.dylib and load the dynamic. depending on a startup switch maybe

Aug 26 00:07:54 shaunmcdonald ChristianL: some graphically set switch?

Aug 26 00:07:55 ChristianL can be done later, so maybe sleep over it :)

Aug 26 00:08:38 ericb2 ChristianL: really, I think build for X11 and Aqua is not a good idea. And te future of OpenOfice.org on Mac OS X is Aqua

Aug 26 00:09:01 paveljanik yay, this is why Apple invented Universal Binaries... ;-)

Aug 26 00:09:09 paveljanik The future is Intel, BUT...

Aug 26 00:09:14 paveljanik in the meantime...

Aug 26 00:09:23 ericb2 UB + X11 + Aqua + .. 64bits ? :-)

Aug 26 00:09:33 ChristianL ok maybe we discuss this at the point in time we actually have a native port for users

Aug 26 00:09:41 paveljanik yes...

Aug 26 00:09:54 paveljanik but I'm happy at least we think of it ;-)

Aug 26 00:10:21 ericb2 Other quesiotns about this point ?

Aug 26 00:10:23 paveljanik it will make our debugging easy...

Aug 26 00:10:36 ericb2 no objections ?

Aug 26 00:10:37 paveljanik no

Aug 26 00:10:44 maho no

Aug 26 00:11:11 ericb2 I think Pavel's proposal is accepted by unanimity

Aug 26 00:11:12 obr no

Aug 26 00:11:19 ericb2 obr: sorry :)

Aug 26 00:11:23 obr np

Aug 26 00:11:42 ericb2 Point 4 : Todolist and Roadmap

Aug 26 00:12:12 ericb2 on http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/MacOSXPortMeetings I proposed a todolist and a roadmap for native prt

Aug 26 00:12:32 ericb2 First todo list

Aug 26 00:13:37 ericb2 these is one of the most often asked questions at the WWDC, when I discussed with other devs or ...  : "... do you have a todo list ?"

Aug 26 00:13:53 ericb2 so I propose one

Aug 26 00:15:08 paveljanik hos is your new TODO connected with your old TODO at http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Mac_OS_X_Porting_- _Work_Areas/Todo%27s

Aug 26 00:15:18 ericb2 what is missing is the link for the wiki page about todo's

Aug 26 00:15:30 ericb2 I think put this link at the end

Aug 26 00:16:03 ericb2 the problem we have : the wiki page needs update, and none ..cares

Aug 26 00:16:17 paveljanik I think this one TODO is anough, and simply have to update it and keep it up-to-date.

Aug 26 00:16:37 paveljanik yes, we don't need several TODOs. One is enough and we have to find someone managing it.

Aug 26 00:16:42 ChristianL I'm with paveljanik, but I think also we need a roadmap for the TODO's

Aug 26 00:16:43 ericb2 paveljanik: my first idea is to blog about Todolist and a Roadmap

Aug 26 00:16:50 shaunmcdonald What is going to happen to the current todo?

Aug 26 00:17:04 ericb2 shaunmcdonald: we will try to update

Aug 26 00:17:05 paveljanik I'd first prefer to discuss roadmap anyway. We all simply should have a common goal.

Aug 26 00:17:11 paveljanik 1. remove x11

Aug 26 00:17:21 paveljanik 2. continue with aquafication.

Aug 26 00:17:26 paveljanik 1. is crucial for me!

Aug 26 00:17:49 paveljanik although I worked on menus, but this was interesting to get some Carbon knowledge.

Aug 26 00:17:55 ChristianL paveljanik: +1, we should have a working aqua port before we do the candy stuff like native file manager

Aug 26 00:18:24 ChristianL with aqua I also include native menu and controls

Aug 26 00:18:24 ericb2 paveljanik: to reach 1, we need very high level devs, and for 2, I think at least controls are a good compromise

Aug 26 00:18:30 shaunmcdonald paveljanik: that is a very good high level view

Aug 26 00:18:54 ericb2 paveljanik: and this is less complicated to help for control.

Aug 26 00:19:07 ericb2 paveljanik: I really think both can be made in parallel

Aug 26 00:19:13 paveljanik of course if we have something more (some controls, menus) good, but non-X11 is crucial!

Aug 26 00:20:04 paveljanik because after we remove X11, we will have to create the package for users! This is also lot of work and at this time, people can continue on native conrols, menus, spell, filemanager, ...

Aug 26 00:20:15 paveljanik but 1. remove X11 is crucial!

Aug 26 00:20:23 paveljanik and again:

Aug 26 00:20:26 paveljanik 1. remove X11 is crucial!

Aug 26 00:20:27 ericb2 paveljanik: ATS, Drawing, events is very complicated

Aug 26 00:20:42 ericb2 s/is/are/

Aug 26 00:20:47 paveljanik we can't do controls without having redraw corrected.

Aug 26 00:20:50 * fredv78 has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))

Aug 26 00:20:55 paveljanik We can;t do easy stuff because it is easy now!

Aug 26 00:21:18 paveljanik having button, perfectly working is enough for the first phase.

Aug 26 00:21:19 ericb2 paveljanik: some of us can't simply contribute for complicated parts

Aug 26 00:21:38 ChristianL from my point of view what is missing for point 1: text layout, complete font support, keyboard support, fixing repaint issues, having aqua install and run out of the box

Aug 26 00:22:06 paveljanik ChristianL: yes, at least now. maybe during the time working fonts will bring other issues.

Aug 26 00:22:13 paveljanik which we can;t see yet.

Aug 26 00:22:22 ChristianL I like to start on the repaint and keyboard issues

Aug 26 00:22:53 paveljanik Thanks!

Aug 26 00:23:18 ChristianL for text and font we either need a good c++ developer who likes to get deep into thinks or we must motivate stephan and herbert

Aug 26 00:23:18 ericb2 ChristianL: I agree with your list. For keyboard, I tested Pavel's work, and I have noticed some bugs

Aug 26 00:23:47 paveljanik BTW: work is a too strong word ;-)

Aug 26 00:24:19 ericb2 ChristianL: they are not motivated ? :-)

Aug 26 00:24:36 ChristianL they are but the need to devote more time :)

Aug 26 00:25:16 ericb2 ChristianL: if I'm not wrong, hdu told me about 700 issues about fonts  :0

Aug 26 00:25:20 ChristianL from my point of view, repaint and keyboard is simple and easy to fix. setup just is work. but layout and font is crucial and needs time and specialists

Aug 26 00:26:28 paveljanik I'll try to help obr with installing and bundle

Aug 26 00:26:30 ericb2 does a documentation about the work already done in aquavcl01 exist ?

Aug 26 00:27:24 * aliscafo_ (n=aliscafo@adsl-074-237-094-051.sip.mia.bellsouth.net) has joined #ooo_macport

Aug 26 00:28:14 ericb2 paveljanik: in the top 10, people often ask " when I close the window, OpenOffice.org is closed ". I think launch another application, lauching OpenOffice.org could help to solve this and maybe more

Aug 26 00:28:41 paveljanik ericb2: this will be on our TODO after we remove X11.

Aug 26 00:28:45 ericb2 paveljanik: thus, close athe last window won't close OpenOffice.org anymore

Aug 26 00:28:53 paveljanik in fact, not exiting is quite simple ;-)

Aug 26 00:28:58 ericb2 paveljanik: put this in setup

Aug 26 00:28:58 ChristianL ericb2: I think we should modify the 'backing' window for that

Aug 26 00:29:18 paveljanik setup?

Aug 26 00:29:33 ericb2 paveljanik: sorry, bundle

Aug 26 00:29:40 * aliscafo has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host))

Aug 26 00:29:41 paveljanik do we have a list of questions people often ask?

Aug 26 00:29:52 ericb2 of course

Aug 26 00:29:58 paveljanik this is not connected with the bundle but with the application itself.

Aug 26 00:30:10 ericb2 native filpicker, native printing box drag and drop

Aug 26 00:30:39 paveljanik so we can create a list of KNOWN_BUGS ;-)

Aug 26 00:30:41 ericb2 paveljanik: I'm not sure, maybe a simple solution can be found

Aug 26 00:30:57 ericb2 paveljanik: there is already one on the wiki

Aug 26 00:31:23 paveljanik for first Aqua version of OOo (ie. OOo without X11).

Aug 26 00:31:57 ericb2 paveljanik: do you mean the current one, or when launcher will work ?

Aug 26 00:32:08 paveljanik launcher?

Aug 26 00:32:26 ericb2 paveljanik: bundle ...whatever thing to be clicked on

Aug 26 00:32:48 ericb2 paveljanik: currently we do black magic to make it work

Aug 26 00:32:53 paveljanik yes, without it, there is no app for users

Aug 26 00:33:03 ChristianL ericb2, paveljanik: I think the clicked on binary must be soffice.bin or the events will not work

Aug 26 00:33:06 paveljanik aliscafo_: ping

Aug 26 00:33:23 paveljanik ChristianL: yes.

Aug 26 00:33:29 aliscafo_ paveljanik: yes

Aug 26 00:33:36 obr no shell scripts in between ?

Aug 26 00:33:38 ChristianL so +1 for the backing window

Aug 26 00:33:38 ericb2 ChristianL: because of event loop need main threads ?

Aug 26 00:33:49 paveljanik aliscafo_: can you tell us the status of your work on native controls?

Aug 26 00:34:07 ChristianL ericb2: no but as I understood there can only be one executable assigned to an *.app

Aug 26 00:34:08 paveljanik obr: yes, we can't have them.

Aug 26 00:34:09 * obr thinks of all the stuff soffice.sh is doing

Aug 26 00:34:22 paveljanik obr: very simple:

Aug 26 00:34:31 paveljanik main() {

Aug 26 00:34:39 paveljanik #ifdef MACOSX

Aug 26 00:34:55 paveljanik system("soffice.sh")

Aug 26 00:34:56 aliscafo_ paveljanik: well I am implementing the simple controls first because I noticed that controls such as scrollbars, spinboxes will take more time, so my goal is to finish the simiple ones first correct all the bugs and then look at the more difficult ones

Aug 26 00:34:58 paveljanik #endif

Aug 26 00:35:03 paveljanik ... almost that simple...

Aug 26 00:35:16 * plum (n=plum@bob75-1-81-57-229-223.fbx.proxad.net) has joined #ooo_macport

Aug 26 00:35:23 paveljanik aliscafo_: good idea!

Aug 26 00:35:38 obr paveljanik: and events will still work ?

Aug 26 00:35:41 * zaudragon (n=takumi@growl/zaudragon) has joined #ooo_macport

Aug 26 00:36:04 plum hello eric <===> tatouille

Aug 26 00:36:10 ChristianL paveljanik: that does not work, some environment stuff must be set before soffice.bin can run

Aug 26 00:36:11 ericb2 plum: hello

Aug 26 00:36:11 paveljanik obr: only the binary named the same as the Execname in the Ino.plist will receive events.

Aug 26 00:36:15 * zaudragon (n=takumi@growl/zaudragon) has left #ooo_macport

Aug 26 00:36:31 plum i check your post on macg?

Aug 26 00:36:50 paveljanik ChristianL: yes, we have to modify our startup procedure a bit.

Aug 26 00:36:57 * The_Tick (n=the_tick@growl/the-tick) has joined #ooo_macport

Aug 26 00:37:08 ericb2 plum: yes, thank's. We started some times ago, but the log will be available just after

Aug 26 00:37:28 plum ok thanks

Aug 26 00:37:40 paveljanik ChristianL: I think there is not many interesting stuff needed, especially on Mac OS X...

Aug 26 00:37:40 The_Tick plum: please don't spam channels :)

Aug 26 00:37:55 ericb2 plum: meeting started 23:00 french hour

Aug 26 00:38:29 paveljanik ... ./droplet now works, so... ;-)

Aug 26 00:38:30 plum yes i know i'm in late i just live my job

Aug 26 00:38:36 ericb2 paveljanik: hmm :-)

Aug 26 00:39:00 aliscafo_ paveljanik: also we need to find a way to handle progress bar with the nativewidget file, I don't see a way to do it right now

Aug 26 00:39:11 paveljanik obr: I have tried to use relative path in info.plist, but it does not work, only the app name must be there.

Aug 26 00:39:43 paveljanik aliscafo_: can you describe the problem to the mailing list?

Aug 26 00:39:53 paveljanik maybe we can find some solution.

Aug 26 00:39:54 aliscafo_ paveljanik: i will

Aug 26 00:39:58 obr paveljanik: o.k., thanks for trying.

Aug 26 00:40:09 ChristianL paveljanik: then we must get rid of the program directory

Aug 26 00:40:48 paveljanik obr: what I do right now is to move the directory structure one level up, so that program/soffice.bin becomes droplet and that's all. the bundle is a bit of a mess, but it works.

Aug 26 00:41:04 paveljanik ChristianL: I think too many places reference it...

Aug 26 00:41:34 ericb2 paveljanik: maybe

Aug 26 00:41:35 plum paveljanik : mainBundle = CFBundleGetMainBundle();

Aug 26 00:41:51 paveljanik we have to try what happens if we replace our current droplet with main(){exec something else} etc.

Aug 26 00:42:29 paveljanik plum: ?

Aug 26 00:42:38 obr paveljanik: I am still debugging an afp problem saving new files - will get to the bundle later

Aug 26 00:43:42 ChristianL what about havving a writer.app, calc.app, impress.app, draw.app? how can they share stuff?

Aug 26 00:43:59 The_Tick a framework

Aug 26 00:44:14 The_Tick throw all your code into a framework

Aug 26 00:44:22 The_Tick and then just include that framework in each

Aug 26 00:44:26 plum paveljanik : "then we must get rid of the program directory"

Aug 26 00:44:46 shaunmcdonald The_Tick: and then a .pkg instead of a drag and drop install

Aug 26 00:44:47 The_Tick it's how we have folks utilize the growl framework

Aug 26 00:44:51 The_Tick shaunmcdonald: no

Aug 26 00:44:58 The_Tick shaunmcdonald: for instance

Aug 26 00:45:03 The_Tick yahoo messenger beta

Aug 26 00:45:09 The_Tick it utilizes Growl.framework

Aug 26 00:45:17 The_Tick by bundling it inside of the application

Aug 26 00:45:45 The_Tick folks do this as well with Sparkle/Sparkle+

Aug 26 00:46:00 paveljanik plum: program is a directory in our structure. many part of the current codebase depend on it. I do not want to fight with all instances of "program" in whole OOo codebase ;-)

Aug 26 00:46:01 The_Tick and other things

Aug 26 00:46:24 shaunmcdonald The_Tick: ah I see

Aug 26 00:46:31 The_Tick look on the growl developer docs

Aug 26 00:46:33 The_Tick cocoa ones

Aug 26 00:46:38 The_Tick more towards the bottom

Aug 26 00:46:51 The_Tick gives somewhat verbose instructions on how to do it

Aug 26 00:46:57 The_Tick well, include it

Aug 26 00:46:59 ChristianL I would prefer one app per office application, better than always starting writer first and is also more iWork like

Aug 26 00:47:13 The_Tick ChristianL: that's also the mac way

Aug 26 00:47:43 The_Tick shipping a large application that does just everything sucks

Aug 26 00:47:52 paveljanik yup, but we have to first remove X11 completely ;-)

Aug 26 00:47:55 The_Tick and you'll get a lot of flack from mac users who won't understand stuff

Aug 26 00:47:58 ChristianL so could someone use the current native build and set up something like that by hand to test?

Aug 26 00:48:00 The_Tick paveljanik: heh

Aug 26 00:48:01 The_Tick honestly

Aug 26 00:48:16 The_Tick just start from scratch with cocoa

Aug 26 00:48:19 The_Tick might be easier :)

Aug 26 00:48:30 shaunmcdonald The_Tick: would we use just one framework for all the apps?

Aug 26 00:48:34 paveljanik The_Tick: hmm, when none knows ObjC? ;-)

Aug 26 00:48:36 The_Tick shaunmcdonald: or many

Aug 26 00:48:39 paveljanik nonsense...

Aug 26 00:48:41 ericb2 I can provide both Intel and PowerPC build

Aug 26 00:48:46 The_Tick paveljanik: http://brok3n.org/cocoa.html

Aug 26 00:48:52 The_Tick time to learn?

Aug 26 00:49:03 The_Tick the java bridge is deprecated

Aug 26 00:49:09 The_Tick they aren't going to improve it

Aug 26 00:49:21 The_Tick we're using it in adium

Aug 26 00:49:22 paveljanik The_Tick: Java bridge?

Aug 26 00:49:32 paveljanik The_Tick: can you pleas eintroduce yourself?

Aug 26 00:49:34 The_Tick my understanding is what you guys are porting is in java

Aug 26 00:49:36 The_Tick oh hi

Aug 26 00:49:41 paveljanik The_Tick: no.

Aug 26 00:49:45 The_Tick bah :)

Aug 26 00:49:52 The_Tick ignore that then, heh

Aug 26 00:50:11 ericb2 The_Tick: no Xlib, no Java, only carbon currently

Aug 26 00:50:22 The_Tick ah, then that might not be too bad

Aug 26 00:50:25 ericb2 The_Tick: just some parts are using Java

Aug 26 00:51:01 paveljanik we somewhat are going OT regarding our agenda for today.

Aug 26 00:51:01 plum paveljanik : :) grep -R

Aug 26 00:51:05 paveljanik well, tomorrow ;-)

Aug 26 00:51:29 The_Tick someone asked how to share code between them all paveljanik

Aug 26 00:51:30 paveljanik plum: ?

Aug 26 00:51:33 The_Tick I fail to see how that's offtopic

Aug 26 00:51:53 ChristianL a good hint indead, but we should look over the details later

Aug 26 00:51:56 The_Tick anyhow, I'll be quiet

Aug 26 00:52:54 ericb2 The_Tick: we have meeting every week, and we sure can add the point to the next agenda

Aug 26 00:53:09 The_Tick sounds so counterproductive :)

Aug 26 00:53:23 ChristianL ericb2: Solving a problem should not be a meeting point

Aug 26 00:53:38 ericb2 ChristianL: so let's solve it now

Aug 26 00:53:42 ChristianL to make this on topic, do we all agree that an installation should be mac like by having an app for each office application?

Aug 26 00:53:54 paveljanik but we can meet here and solve it together :-)

Aug 26 00:53:57 ericb2 ChristianL: this does not bother me

Aug 26 00:53:57 paveljanik yes.

Aug 26 00:54:02 ChristianL ericb2: no, I need at least 4 hours of sleep, so not solving all problems today. besides installing is prio 3 at least

Aug 26 00:54:14 The_Tick pkg will get you guys a lot of bad response, fyi

Aug 26 00:54:19 The_Tick we did that with growl :(

Aug 26 00:54:41 paveljanik yes, this is what I think so.

Aug 26 00:54:42 shaunmcdonald installation method is something that I wanted to bring up

Aug 26 00:54:58 The_Tick shaunmcdonald: what we do in adium works really well

Aug 26 00:55:38 shaunmcdonald there is a bit of a conflict, some issues say use pkg, others say disc image drag and drop

Aug 26 00:55:49 shaunmcdonald The_Tick: sorry I don't use adium

Aug 26 00:55:54 The_Tick no worries

Aug 26 00:55:57 The_Tick a dmg

Aug 26 00:56:02 The_Tick with a symlink to /applications

Aug 26 00:56:30 The_Tick it's not so good for say shareware applications, but for oss, it solves the problem of ease of install

Aug 26 00:56:30 plum paveljanik : i explore src and answer u in few minutes

Aug 26 00:56:31 shaunmcdonald The_Tick: same as EyeTV and an increasing number of other apps

Aug 26 00:56:35 ericb2 The_Tick: good

Aug 26 00:56:35 The_Tick yep

Aug 26 00:56:53 The_Tick oh, someone wanted me to intro myself

Aug 26 00:56:57 The_Tick <- Growl Project Lead

Aug 26 00:57:03 The_Tick and Adium Project Manager

Aug 26 00:57:09 ChristianL an office package is to a standard application what an oil tanker is to a fishing boat, just to remind everyone

Aug 26 00:57:15 plum The_Tick : :)

Aug 26 00:57:40 shaunmcdonald We will need to add symlink to /Applications to the dmg

Aug 26 00:57:42 The_Tick shaunmcdonald: we had a bunch of people send in "how do I install adium?!" emails

Aug 26 00:57:48 The_Tick and after that

Aug 26 00:57:52 The_Tick no more :)

Aug 26 00:58:13 The_Tick shaunmcdonald: along with changing dmg artwork to be sorta intuitive about it

Aug 26 00:58:23 shaunmcdonald The_Tick: does adium work on OS 10.3?

Aug 26 00:58:28 The_Tick ya

Aug 26 00:58:37 plum The_Tick: stop adium please

Aug 26 00:58:43 shaunmcdonald The_Tick: even the background of the dmg?

Aug 26 00:58:44 The_Tick the dmg will mount and you'll see what I'm talking about at least :)

Aug 26 00:58:48 The_Tick shaunmcdonald: yea

Aug 26 00:58:49 ericb2 The_Tick: even the symlink ?

Aug 26 00:58:53 The_Tick ericb2: ya

Aug 26 00:58:55 The_Tick sec

Aug 26 00:59:02 The_Tick you guys have svn clients?

Aug 26 00:59:03 ericb2 The_Tick: interesting

Aug 26 00:59:12 shaunmcdonald The_Tick: great you will be of some help then

Aug 26 00:59:14 paveljanik ericb2: back to the agenda, please...

Aug 26 00:59:46 shaunmcdonald at point 4?

Aug 26 00:59:53 paveljanik meetings longer than 1:30 are not effective.

Aug 26 01:00:03 ericb2 Roadmap now

Aug 26 01:00:11 * The_Tick (n=the_tick@growl/the-tick) has left #ooo_macport

Aug 26 01:00:33 ericb2 paveljanik: I'm glad to see new devs, maybe we can make exceptions for them ?

Aug 26 01:00:57 ericb2 paveljanik: they sure can bring new blood

Aug 26 01:00:59 shaunmcdonald ericb2: need to define "fix OpenOffice.org launch"

Aug 26 01:01:05 * paveljanik would like to see new devs, with signed JCA and many codelines waiting for commit ;-)

Aug 26 01:01:25 ericb2 paveljanik: adium is ab big project

Aug 26 01:01:29 plum ericb2 : yep it's me who ask on growl channel

Aug 26 01:01:38 plum ed

Aug 26 01:02:20 plum if someone was interrested in OoO mac port

Aug 26 01:02:29 ericb2 paveljanik: and I never saw anyone come with already signed JCA ;-)

Aug 26 01:02:52 ericb2 plum: I think you are in France, right ?

Aug 26 01:03:21 paveljanik ok, what else can we finish from our roadmap in next 5?

Aug 26 01:03:22 plum ericb2 : yep for know , i leave for CA in febuary

Aug 26 01:03:25 paveljanik ... seconds?

Aug 26 01:03:28 ChristianL (that adium x installer dmg with the symlink is cool, btw. but no reason not to copy it :)

Aug 26 01:03:55 spiral 'bye

Aug 26 01:03:55 * spiral (n=spiral@laf31-2-82-224-249-43.fbx.proxad.net) has left #ooo_macport ("Bye")

Aug 26 01:04:41 paveljanik ChristianL: I traced the non working KEYINPUT and KEYUP events to Application::HandleKey and mpKeyListeners beign NULL. If you can continue :-)

Aug 26 01:05:02 ericb2 plum: I think we should contiue to discuss tomorrow, or .. just contact me. What you propose is very interesting, and our meeting started really long time ago, sorry

Aug 26 01:05:31 ChristianL so what is open for the meeting to discuss? We can fix individual issues all week :)

Aug 26 01:05:39 ericb2 Next point is the Roadmap

Aug 26 01:06:04 plum paveljanik : instead this stupid droplet / it's difficult in IRC but i try

Aug 26 01:06:22 plum Resources/Core/help

Aug 26 01:06:37 plum Resources/Core/presets

Aug 26 01:06:59 plum Resources/Core/program

Aug 26 01:07:01 plum ...

Aug 26 01:07:14 plum CFBundleExecutable

Aug 26 01:07:18 ChristianL ericb2: The question is, do we want to have a roadmap entry before having a working native OOo install set for users?

Aug 26 01:07:34 plum CFBundleRef mainBundle;

Aug 26 01:07:42 plum mainBundle = CFBundleGetMainBundle();

Aug 26 01:07:43 ericb2 ChristianL: yes, allprojects have

Aug 26 01:07:54 plum so you get your Bundle structure

Aug 26 01:07:56 ChristianL ericb2: So which one is it?

Aug 26 01:08:09 ericb2 http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/MacOSXPortMeetings#Draft_for_Mac_OS_X_native_port_Roadmap_and_Todolist

Aug 26 01:08:20 paveljanik plum: we know how to do this in a project from scratch. But we have to do it in OOo as a whole.

Aug 26 01:08:22 ericb2 ChristianL: something very simple

Aug 26 01:08:26 plum you can exec in a safe thread

Aug 26 01:08:57 plum the main OoO prog in Resources/Core/program

Aug 26 01:09:15 paveljanik plum: and how do we exec it so it receives events?

Aug 26 01:09:28 plum yep

Aug 26 01:09:46 plum your carbon apploop

Aug 26 01:09:52 plum is aware

Aug 26 01:09:59 paveljanik How? Yes. /me needs some sleep.

Aug 26 01:10:02 plum if you don't fork

Aug 26 01:10:13 ChristianL plum, can you mail that to the mac porting list?

Aug 26 01:10:33 plum yep i think it will better

Aug 26 01:10:41 ericb2 plum: +1

Aug 26 01:10:45 ChristianL its 1am here and it is hard to follow two discussions

Aug 26 01:10:50 plum it's difficult to expain this line by line

Aug 26 01:11:29 ChristianL ericb2: +1 to your roadmap

Aug 26 01:11:35 ericb2 ChristianL: thank's :-)

Aug 26 01:12:02 ChristianL ericb2: You should ad the point "playing invader on OOoCon" ;-)

Aug 26 01:12:19 paveljanik localization will work out of the box and if not, I'll fix it.

Aug 26 01:12:25 shaunmcdonald ericb2: some things need to be defined more e.g. fix ooo launch

Aug 26 01:12:44 ericb2 ChristianL: I'll be very please if so !!

Aug 26 01:12:49 ericb2 pleased

Aug 26 01:13:08 ChristianL is "fix ooo launch" the problem that we don't have a working install set for the native port?

Aug 26 01:13:19 ericb2 shaunmcdonald: exact. I search a better word. Do you have an idea ?

Aug 26 01:13:30 ericb2 ChristianL: exactly

Aug 26 01:14:02 shaunmcdonald ericb2: say more about it

Aug 26 01:14:09 ChristianL then that is exactly two parts. First find out how to do an ooo package. I think plum and also the tick gave great input. Second part is to implement it in scp2

Aug 26 01:14:38 plum just for a concept bundle/ carbon / runner

Aug 26 01:14:43 ChristianL shaunmcdonald: I think the short explanation is "having somthing the user can install to have a native OOo"

Aug 26 01:14:53 shaunmcdonald ericb2: it can be nice to have a few words for the main point, but you then need to be able to know exactly what is meant by it

Aug 26 01:15:28 ericb2 shaunmcdonald: not too much, it must stay "generic"

Aug 26 01:15:30 plum i 've made a little launcher for wxpython/carbon

Aug 26 01:15:33 paveljanik in the meantime, we can have shell script to be run on the installed directory from .dmg in Applications and prepare to the state "working" ;-)

Aug 26 01:15:49 plum but it's the same logic

Aug 26 01:15:59 shaunmcdonald ericb2: this can then lead to an implementation spec

Aug 26 01:15:59 plum http://plumber.gnu-darwin.org/shared.php?_w2pb=pub/projects/PyApplicationStub-1

Aug 26 01:16:07 ericb2 shaunmcdonald: no please :-/

Aug 26 01:16:39 paveljanik this is why I think in the first step, we should make OOo look the same as current X11, maybe with Application link instead of icon...

Aug 26 01:16:52 plum to try and understand an app model

Aug 26 01:16:56 plum http://plumber.gnu-darwin.org/pub/projects/Archimade.zip

Aug 26 01:17:07 ChristianL paveljanik: that application link stuff the_tick told us does not solve our problem with multiple applications

Aug 26 01:17:17 ChristianL also not solving the problem that soffice.bin is not getting events

Aug 26 01:17:44 plum ChristianL : /Library/OpenOffice/Core

Aug 26 01:17:45 shaunmcdonald ericb2: maybe I'm trying to be too strong on the documentation

Aug 26 01:17:48 ChristianL but I think this is all solveable, but not today

Aug 26 01:18:02 paveljanik ChristianL: yes, so lets first use our current approach, make it working and then we can investigate how to make it better.

Aug 26 01:18:04 paveljanik yep

Aug 26 01:18:13 ChristianL shaunmcdonald: No, if we figured out how an OOo must be packed for installation, it is a good think to write a specification

Aug 26 01:18:13 paveljanik maybe today afternoon ;-)

Aug 26 01:19:06 ericb2 for the Roadmap no comments ?

Aug 26 01:19:40 ChristianL 2 for it, 6 neutral I guess

Aug 26 01:20:26 ericb2 ok, I consider none objects

Aug 26 01:20:37 ericb2 this will be our official Roadmap

Aug 26 01:20:50 ChristianL to sum the roadmap up, we like to present current state at OOoCon, have an alpha version in jannuary/february and then going for debug and more native features?

Aug 26 01:20:51 shaunmcdonald ericb2: include it in static site?

Aug 26 01:21:14 paveljanik ChristianL: +1 for this shortened version ;-)

Aug 26 01:21:53 ericb2 shaunmcdonald: yes, please. and asa we find a better word replacing "launch" we will do the change

Aug 26 01:21:54 shaunmcdonald last static road map was Jan 2005

Aug 26 01:22:12 shaunmcdonald it is easy to change

Aug 26 01:22:16 paveljanik we should set it to stone, go to sleep and work to make it happen later today ;-)

Aug 26 01:22:55 obr paveljanik: good plan

Aug 26 01:23:01 ericb2 And next points ?

Aug 26 01:23:08 ericb2 Point 5: X11 version

Aug 26 01:23:08 ericb2 Point 6: our tinderbox status/usage

Aug 26 01:23:10 shaunmcdonald paveljanik: +1, if needed, we can change/update it later

Aug 26 01:23:30 ericb2 Other points are postponed to next meeting

Aug 26 01:23:38 shaunmcdonald localisation of X11 no install?

Aug 26 01:24:02 paveljanik shaunmcdonald: we do not need it because we do not have localized fondu anyway...

Aug 26 01:24:02 maho +1 for postpone

Aug 26 01:24:06 paveljanik english is enough.

Aug 26 01:24:06 ericb2 shaunmcdonald: it depends on when we stop to assume 10.3 compatibility

Aug 26 01:24:11 paveljanik :-(((((((

Aug 26 01:24:34 shaunmcdonald ericb2: can you send me the code to check with 10.3, since I have 10.3 now

Aug 26 01:24:42 ericb2 shaunmcdonald: yes

Aug 26 01:24:49 paveljanik do we have a short sample showing the problem under 10.3 and working under 10.4?

Aug 26 01:24:49 shaunmcdonald ericb2: thanks

Aug 26 01:25:08 ericb2 shaunmcdonald: please verify everything works with 10.3 and 10.4 (Intel and PowerPC)

Aug 26 01:25:16 shaunmcdonald paveljanik: that's what I was looking for,

Aug 26 01:25:20 ericb2 shaunmcdonald: tomorrow morning

Aug 26 01:25:31 shaunmcdonald ericb2: will do may take a few days

Aug 26 01:25:42 ericb2 paveljanik: I got everything in a backup

Aug 26 01:25:46 paveljanik shaunmcdonald: Yes! We need AppleScript developer :-)

Aug 26 01:26:09 shaunmcdonald paveljanik: I'm not that great, will try to learn though

Aug 26 01:26:30 plum ericb2 : the rule : keep compatibility for 2 release, i think you can lose the compatibility when 10.5 will be released

Aug 26 01:26:57 ericb2 plum: I verified : OopenOffice.org already works on Leopard preview

Aug 26 01:27:16 shaunmcdonald ericb2: got verification from someone else too

Aug 26 01:27:20 ChristianL so for a native release, our baseline can be 10.4? cool

Aug 26 01:27:32 ericb2 ChristianL: yes

Aug 26 01:27:40 ericb2 ChristianL: and maybe provide UB

Aug 26 01:27:51 maho ericb2 : really?

Aug 26 01:27:59 plum ericb2 yep but it's a preview not an official released , it's just to respect your users :)

Aug 26 01:28:12 ChristianL I think UB is a must, but maybe only when we are in beta state

Aug 26 01:28:22 shaunmcdonald there was some work on UB before and it was working


Aug 26 01:28:39 shaunmcdonald can't remember which version though or who was working on it


Aug 26 01:30:01 ericb2 maho: only one isue is remaining : cross compile the bridge if I'm not wrong

Aug 26 01:30:18 ericb2 ChristianL: I mant for X11 version

Aug 26 01:30:20 maho AFAIK: yes

Aug 26 01:30:21 ericb2 meant

Aug 26 01:30:55 * paveljanik has at least 13 patches to get universal binaries and is still not finished :-(

Aug 26 01:31:13 ChristianL on a second thouhgt, would people not prefer to download a shorter install set for theire plattform?

Aug 26 01:31:36 shaunmcdonald paveljanik: is there a cws/issue for it?

Aug 26 01:31:52 ericb2 plum: I meant a stable version as UB, not an alpha, nor even beta

Aug 26 01:32:36 paveljanik ChristianL: this is not for log: I think UB was invented because the computer literacy of Mac users is a bit below our acceptable computer literacy level... Mac is Mac. Do not care what is inside. Really.

Aug 26 01:32:42 shaunmcdonald ChristianL: I would prefer one download for both my PPC and Intel machine, rather than 2

Aug 26 01:33:14 paveljanik shaunmcdonald: not yet. There is one for configure stuff, yes.

Aug 26 01:33:33 plum shaunmcdonald : magic lipo :)

Aug 26 01:34:00 ericb2 paveljanik: distributed build ? marry Intel and PowerPC ? :-)

Aug 26 01:34:00 paveljanik plum: you come from the world of simple apps with simple release process ;-)

Aug 26 01:35:05 paveljanik sory guys, but 02:30 is my record time to be in OOo related meetings. My business record is 17:45 though... See you tomorrow.

Aug 26 01:35:15 ericb2 As last point, I think we should provide agenda more sooner in the week

Aug 26 01:35:31 ericb2 I'll post on mac@porting list for that

Aug 26 01:35:33 shaunmcdonald ericb2: agree

Aug 26 01:35:35 maho see you pjanik

Aug 26 01:35:48 maho +1 ericb2

Aug 26 01:36:00 ericb2 ok, time to sleep here too

Aug 26 01:36:22 obr +1

Aug 26 01:36:23 ChristianL me too

Aug 26 01:36:38 * obr has quit ()

Aug 26 01:36:39 ericb2 good night all

Aug 26 01:36:45 plum paveljanik : yep i know it's a big work, and porting to mac/carbon it's not easy , for many reasons , i know the problem

Aug 26 01:36:49 shaunmcdonald me too, and it's only 0:36

Aug 26 01:37:08 ericb2 maho: what time is it for you ?

Aug 26 01:37:16 maho 8:37 am, NP

Aug 26 01:37:22 ericb2 1:37 in France

Aug 26 01:37:22 plum ericb2 : ++

Aug 26 01:37:33 ericb2 plum: salut , et merci !

Aug 26 01:37:52 plum GMT only 23:37 :)

Aug 26 01:37:59 ChristianL btw, that adium had a nice picture in its crash reporter dialog. a parot going down in flames, maybe we can have something like that with a seagull :)

Aug 26 01:37:59 plum yep salut

Aug 26 01:38:07 shaunmcdonald BST just now

Aug 26 01:38:37 * maho has quit ("ChatZilla 0.9.61 [Mozilla rv:1.7.8/20050511]")

Aug 26 01:38:49 * shaunmcdonald has quit ()

Aug 26 01:38:56 * ChristianL (n=Christia@e177163149.adsl.alicedsl.de) has left #ooo_macport

Aug 26 01:38:56 * You have been marked as being away

Aug 26 01:48:54 plum ++

Aug 26 01:49:35 * plum has quit ("Leaving")

Aug 26 02:33:43 * aliscafo_ has quit ()

Aug 26 04:53:01 * aptiva (n=aptiva@dsl-34-198.ln.netheimur.is) has joined #ooo_macport


Return to main page : MacOSXPortMeetings

Return to Previous meetings page : Previous_Mac_Meeting_logs

Return to August 2006 : August_2006

Retrieved from "https://wiki.openoffice.org/w/index.php?title=Log_content&oldid=158922"
Personal tools